2011 Mustang GT - GM better power up
02-12-2010, 10:10 PM
#42
wow...we're beating this dead horse again huh?
here we go boys! well before this thing gets locked, I'm just gunna say a few things:
This isn't something new. Ford has always taken a few years to catch up with GM performance wise. That's all they're doing now-they never seem to "out-do" GM, but just match it...
when you compare HP and 1/4 mile times it's obvious and redundant:
'96 Cobra DOHC matches '92 technology LT1 cars.
'03 Cobra SC DOHC 395HP topped 98 LS1 technology
'05 DOHC 305HP motor doesnt even match up to '98 LS1 technology
now they release a 5.0 in 2011 that will give the 2009 technology LS3 a run for it's money...suprise suprise...
Give GM 2 years, they will have it topped.
here we go boys! well before this thing gets locked, I'm just gunna say a few things:
This isn't something new. Ford has always taken a few years to catch up with GM performance wise. That's all they're doing now-they never seem to "out-do" GM, but just match it...
when you compare HP and 1/4 mile times it's obvious and redundant:
'96 Cobra DOHC matches '92 technology LT1 cars.
'03 Cobra SC DOHC 395HP topped 98 LS1 technology
'05 DOHC 305HP motor doesnt even match up to '98 LS1 technology
now they release a 5.0 in 2011 that will give the 2009 technology LS3 a run for it's money...suprise suprise...
Give GM 2 years, they will have it topped.
02-13-2010, 04:29 AM
#43
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Who says it matches it?
And you left out a few cars there. The 03 Mach1 and a LS1 fbody are pretty much a driver's race. And to say a 96 Cobra's technology matches LT1 cars is a bit dishonest is it not? Same with the 03 Cobra. The 305hp GTs are close enough to the LS1 to not even matter. And if you are going to call the new Camaro a 2009, then the 2011 GT is a 2010. You say Ford is always behind, But the 2010 Camaro was GM catching up with Ford. And even then they didn't. The GT wasn't the fastest Mustang Ford made during that time. Not even close. Not that I think these comparisons in any way are ever "fair" because whatever car you own, is the side you are going to side with.
And you left out a few cars there. The 03 Mach1 and a LS1 fbody are pretty much a driver's race. And to say a 96 Cobra's technology matches LT1 cars is a bit dishonest is it not? Same with the 03 Cobra. The 305hp GTs are close enough to the LS1 to not even matter. And if you are going to call the new Camaro a 2009, then the 2011 GT is a 2010. You say Ford is always behind, But the 2010 Camaro was GM catching up with Ford. And even then they didn't. The GT wasn't the fastest Mustang Ford made during that time. Not even close. Not that I think these comparisons in any way are ever "fair" because whatever car you own, is the side you are going to side with.
Last edited by Ke^in; 02-13-2010 at 04:49 AM.
02-13-2010, 09:53 AM
#44
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Like what? Where did you gain all this knowledge...reading the internet or actually building and racing a fast car? We have plenty of people here that pass along info they've read, but what helps push things forward is when people get out there and actually do it and share real world experiences.
02-13-2010, 11:26 AM
#45
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wow...we're beating this dead horse again huh?
here we go boys! well before this thing gets locked, I'm just gunna say a few things:
This isn't something new. Ford has always taken a few years to catch up with GM performance wise. That's all they're doing now-they never seem to "out-do" GM, but just match it...
when you compare HP and 1/4 mile times it's obvious and redundant:
'96 Cobra DOHC matches '92 technology LT1 cars.
'03 Cobra SC DOHC 395HP topped 98 LS1 technology
'05 DOHC 305HP motor doesnt even match up to '98 LS1 technology
now they release a 5.0 in 2011 that will give the 2009 technology LS3 a run for it's money...suprise suprise...
Give GM 2 years, they will have it topped.
here we go boys! well before this thing gets locked, I'm just gunna say a few things:
This isn't something new. Ford has always taken a few years to catch up with GM performance wise. That's all they're doing now-they never seem to "out-do" GM, but just match it...
when you compare HP and 1/4 mile times it's obvious and redundant:
'96 Cobra DOHC matches '92 technology LT1 cars.
'03 Cobra SC DOHC 395HP topped 98 LS1 technology
'05 DOHC 305HP motor doesnt even match up to '98 LS1 technology
now they release a 5.0 in 2011 that will give the 2009 technology LS3 a run for it's money...suprise suprise...
Give GM 2 years, they will have it topped.
B) HP isn't everything.....I'd like to think more people know that.
C) What about 03-09 for the fbod? Just curious.
This thread's getting lame. All the fanboy's come out and all the BS gets splattered all of the screen.
02-13-2010, 02:43 PM
#46
Who says it matches it?
And you left out a few cars there. The 03 Mach1 and a LS1 fbody are pretty much a driver's race. And to say a 96 Cobra's technology matches LT1 cars is a bit dishonest is it not? Same with the 03 Cobra. The 305hp GTs are close enough to the LS1 to not even matter. And if you are going to call the new Camaro a 2009, then the 2011 GT is a 2010. You say Ford is always behind, But the 2010 Camaro was GM catching up with Ford. And even then they didn't. The GT wasn't the fastest Mustang Ford made during that time. Not even close. Not that I think these comparisons in any way are ever "fair" because whatever car you own, is the side you are going to side with.
And you left out a few cars there. The 03 Mach1 and a LS1 fbody are pretty much a driver's race. And to say a 96 Cobra's technology matches LT1 cars is a bit dishonest is it not? Same with the 03 Cobra. The 305hp GTs are close enough to the LS1 to not even matter. And if you are going to call the new Camaro a 2009, then the 2011 GT is a 2010. You say Ford is always behind, But the 2010 Camaro was GM catching up with Ford. And even then they didn't. The GT wasn't the fastest Mustang Ford made during that time. Not even close. Not that I think these comparisons in any way are ever "fair" because whatever car you own, is the side you are going to side with.
every single 96-98 cobra I've seen at the track (dozens of them) has run right around high 13-14 flat at the track with either light mods or stock. That's the same as yur everyday LT1 car, so yea, I'd say it matches it. And the 305 HP '05-'10 GT's generally run mid-high 13's and low 14's too...LS1 fbody's have been driven into the 12's completely factory, so i wouldn't consider .5-1 full second difference "so close to the same it doesn't even matter."
what non-SVT car was faster than a Mustang GT? in any year?
and yes, the LS3 was in the 2009 G8 GXP, so yes, I will call it 2009.
and I never really understood why SVT modified cars like shelbys and cobras got thrown into the "ford" group like it's just another Mustang. If we wanna play that game, throw in GMMG's 500+HP cars for GM.
as for 2003-2009...GTO, G8's, CTS-V's, hell even the Trailblazer SS ran with the 01-04 GT's...
Ford's got a fantastic car coming out. I'm not a mustang hater, all I'm saying is GM will more than likely top the '11 GT within the next few years.
Will it outdue the 2010 Camaro SS? Yes. By leaps and bounds? Nope.
Will GM just sit back and take the beating? Doubt it.
02-13-2010, 02:53 PM
#47
WOWO......Eat some Rice Krispie's this mornin' with that post?
A) plenty disagree.
B) HP isn't everything.....I'd like to think more people know that.
C) What about 03-09 for the fbod? Just curious.
This thread's getting lame. All the fanboy's come out and all the BS gets splattered all of the screen.
A) plenty disagree.
B) HP isn't everything.....I'd like to think more people know that.
C) What about 03-09 for the fbod? Just curious.
This thread's getting lame. All the fanboy's come out and all the BS gets splattered all of the screen.
So yea, I do "know about that."
a 275HP LT1 will run with a 305 HP DOHC cobra. You can't argue against that-It's the truth. In fact, my track times in my stock LT1 were better than my best freind's 96 cobra. They are very comparable cars. You are ignorant if you think otherwise.
02-13-2010, 05:44 PM
#48
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This could get interesting....... I'm not talking specifically about Fbody's vs. ford, I'm talking about GM vs. ford. Then why not talk about the SHO vs. a GT GXP or the like? Exactly.
every single 96-98 cobra I've seen at the track (dozens of them) has run right around high 13-14 flat at the track with either light mods or stock. That's the same as yur everyday LT1 car, so yea, I'd say it matches it. And the 305 HP '05-'10 GT's generally run mid-high 13's and low 14's too...LS1 fbody's have been driven into the 12's completely factory, so i wouldn't consider .5-1 full second difference "so close to the same it doesn't even matter." Uh..really? Are you serious? You state below that you're not a mustang hater, yet you just compared average times to the BEST of LS1 times. Uh..yeah, THAT's not being biased.
Try being REAListic here bub.
what non-SVT car was faster than a Mustang GT? in any year? Hmmm..MACH 1. ? Again, I thought you knew about mustangs. Doesn't seem that way to me.
and yes, the LS3 was in the 2009 G8 GXP, so yes, I will call it 2009. AGAIN, why not talk about something Ford has besides a mustang. you never mentioned one freakin' car outside of mustang, but you mention all GM's across the board? Again...a tad biased no?
and I never really understood why SVT modified cars like shelbys and cobras got thrown into the "ford" group like it's just another Mustang. If we wanna play that game, throw in GMMG's 500+HP cars for GM. UH...probably because SVT is a division WITHIN FORD and It IS A mustang. There's that ignorance popping up again.
as for 2003-2009...GTO, G8's, CTS-V's, hell even the Trailblazer SS ran with the 01-04 GT's...There we go again....comparing all GMs to ONE Ford product. What does GM have that can compare to HD and L's?..oh yeah..nothing.
Ford's got a fantastic car coming out. I'm not a mustang hater, all I'm saying is GM will more than likely top the '11 GT within the next few years.
Will it outdue the 2010 Camaro SS? Yes. By leaps and bounds? Nope.
Will GM just sit back and take the beating? Doubt it.
every single 96-98 cobra I've seen at the track (dozens of them) has run right around high 13-14 flat at the track with either light mods or stock. That's the same as yur everyday LT1 car, so yea, I'd say it matches it. And the 305 HP '05-'10 GT's generally run mid-high 13's and low 14's too...LS1 fbody's have been driven into the 12's completely factory, so i wouldn't consider .5-1 full second difference "so close to the same it doesn't even matter." Uh..really? Are you serious? You state below that you're not a mustang hater, yet you just compared average times to the BEST of LS1 times. Uh..yeah, THAT's not being biased.
Try being REAListic here bub.what non-SVT car was faster than a Mustang GT? in any year? Hmmm..MACH 1. ? Again, I thought you knew about mustangs. Doesn't seem that way to me.
and yes, the LS3 was in the 2009 G8 GXP, so yes, I will call it 2009. AGAIN, why not talk about something Ford has besides a mustang. you never mentioned one freakin' car outside of mustang, but you mention all GM's across the board? Again...a tad biased no?
and I never really understood why SVT modified cars like shelbys and cobras got thrown into the "ford" group like it's just another Mustang. If we wanna play that game, throw in GMMG's 500+HP cars for GM. UH...probably because SVT is a division WITHIN FORD and It IS A mustang. There's that ignorance popping up again.
as for 2003-2009...GTO, G8's, CTS-V's, hell even the Trailblazer SS ran with the 01-04 GT's...There we go again....comparing all GMs to ONE Ford product. What does GM have that can compare to HD and L's?..oh yeah..nothing.
Ford's got a fantastic car coming out. I'm not a mustang hater, all I'm saying is GM will more than likely top the '11 GT within the next few years.
Will it outdue the 2010 Camaro SS? Yes. By leaps and bounds? Nope.
Will GM just sit back and take the beating? Doubt it.
and im plenty aware that HP isn't everything. I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of Mustangs run at the Track, and the same with Fbody and GM cars...I'm not stupid. Every other car in the staging lanes are either a Camaro or a Mustang. They make up probably 75% of the cars I see at the track, so I've noticed. 2 of my best friends are mustang guys(96 cobra, 2000 Saleen, 97 with an 03 stroked motor...yea...not yur typical GT's)-I've talked to the owners, I've driven the cars, I've seen them at the track, I've read the forums, seen the reviews, seen tons of street races...Needless to say, I've NOTICED what these cars do on a regular basis.
So yea, I do "know about that."
a 275HP LT1 will run with a 305 HP DOHC cobra. You can't argue against that-It's the truth. In fact, my track times in my stock LT1 were better than my best freind's 96 cobra. They are very comparable cars. You are ignorant if you think otherwise.
So yea, I do "know about that."
a 275HP LT1 will run with a 305 HP DOHC cobra. You can't argue against that-It's the truth. In fact, my track times in my stock LT1 were better than my best freind's 96 cobra. They are very comparable cars. You are ignorant if you think otherwise.
BTW - a '00 saleen IS a typical GT when it comes to 1320 racing. There's that ignorance again.
ANything else? Looks like school may be starting early for Spring.
And again...WTF happened 03-09? See, what some people tend to forget is Ford is a business. They are around to make money. That's why they make enough power, and enough to appeal to keep making money. As a result, they A) have had the longest continuously sold sports car with no 'break', B) never had to stop production to 'redo' their blue collar sports car, C) didn't need a bail out, and D) is posting in teh black without it.
Last edited by ponygt65; 02-13-2010 at 05:54 PM.
02-13-2010, 09:16 PM
#51
this arguing is pointless...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
02-13-2010, 09:42 PM
#52
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FWIW, I'm just happy that the ponycar war is back alive and kicking. It sucked when the f-bodys were killed back in '02. Ford has always kept alive their ponycar brand, and continued to update and improve on it. I'm a fan of v-8 rwd performance cars, so this horsepower war can only mean good things for us, regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
I currently own 2 f-bodys but would not hesitate to buy the new stang. I really like the look and I'm sure the performance will be impressive. I'm still trying to get used to the new camaro. Sometimes I like it...but other times it looks ugly from certain angles.
I currently own 2 f-bodys but would not hesitate to buy the new stang. I really like the look and I'm sure the performance will be impressive. I'm still trying to get used to the new camaro. Sometimes I like it...but other times it looks ugly from certain angles.
02-13-2010, 10:27 PM
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To all the newbs the standing rule is you got to be out of 13's to talk smack. 
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
02-13-2010, 10:43 PM
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this arguing is pointless...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
02-13-2010, 11:14 PM
#55
To all the newbs the standing rule is you got to be out of 13's to talk smack.
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
02-13-2010, 11:19 PM
#56
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this arguing is pointless...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
Mustangs are way better and faster. I retrack all previous statements above. I know nothing about them and have never seen what they do in a real world application at all, ever. Saleens and Cobra's are just yur everyday mustang, and I see at least 10 GT500's a day too, especially at the track...
GM should just close it's doors cuz they can't keep up with Shelby, Roush, and Saleen's cars with their entry level performance car, let alone anything with a shiney horse in the grille.
yur all right, I'm wrong.
I can't believe I got caught up in this BS...
and as for the saleen..sorry for you buddy, but aside from their terrific handling, they ARE a GT. They actually tend to be a tad slower in the 1320 due to their weight. Not to mention, the S281SC (new edges) are a low 13 second car and dyno just over 300. That's said for a boosted car, when a stock mach can pull that ET off with 25-35 less rwhp/tq. Not to mention the 99-01 cobra's are right on their heels.
FWIW, I'm just happy that the ponycar war is back alive and kicking. It sucked when the f-bodys were killed back in '02. Ford has always kept alive their ponycar brand, and continued to update and improve on it. I'm a fan of v-8 rwd performance cars, so this horsepower war can only mean good things for us, regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
To all the newbs the standing rule is you got to be out of 13's to talk smack.
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
really? so a mach isnt' a low mid 13 second car, which is what an LS fbod is? (yes, a handful have hit 12s........basically non-opt'd ones).
02-13-2010, 11:21 PM
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02-14-2010, 04:41 AM
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As far as the rest of your post. I don't agree with a lot of it, but I will refrain from dragging this out any further.
I go to a lot of Mustang web sites. Which BTW have a lot of GM owners in them as well. I treat them with the respect I expect to be treated with.
This isn't what I've read, it's what I've seen with my own two eyes on the track. The Mach1 is HARDLY known as a overated turd. Even in this forum.
Last edited by Ke^in; 02-14-2010 at 04:50 AM.
02-14-2010, 12:14 PM
#59
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Lets start with a positive note 
Sarge whats good brotha!
And agree'd my TQ converter made the biggest difference on my car.
Mike you're such a bully, but i must say i almost chocked laughing at the bolded part.
God i miss this section, it was only a couple of years ago before i was enlightened, doing this same type of argueing. I personally HATE i mean HATE ford, but you have to accept they have made some great 1320 cars just like GM. I personally would trade my TA for a 03-04 Mach. And im a GM guy!
I was thinking the same thing, dudes DA must be like 3500 or higher and they must be running over 2.0 60's for those Mach's to run high 13's low 14's haha for christ sake my stock LT1 ran a 14.00 with a 2.2 60' at 2000 DA!!!! and the Mach is leagues ahead of a stock LT1.
And agree'd my TQ converter made the biggest difference on my car.
WOWO......Eat some Rice Krispie's this mornin' with that post?
A) plenty disagree.
B) HP isn't everything.....I'd like to think more people know that.
C) What about 03-09 for the fbod? Just curious.
This thread's getting lame. All the fanboy's come out and all the BS gets splattered all of the screen.
A) plenty disagree.
B) HP isn't everything.....I'd like to think more people know that.
C) What about 03-09 for the fbod? Just curious.
This thread's getting lame. All the fanboy's come out and all the BS gets splattered all of the screen.
God i miss this section, it was only a couple of years ago before i was enlightened, doing this same type of argueing. I personally HATE i mean HATE ford, but you have to accept they have made some great 1320 cars just like GM. I personally would trade my TA for a 03-04 Mach. And im a GM guy!
Again either you live in a high altitude or there are some sucky drivers there. high 13s low 14s are stock 2v territory. Mach1s are in the mid 13s or lower.
This isn't what I've read, it's what I've seen with my own two eyes on the track. The Mach1 is HARDLY known as a overated turd. Even in this forum.
This isn't what I've read, it's what I've seen with my own two eyes on the track. The Mach1 is HARDLY known as a overated turd. Even in this forum.
02-14-2010, 12:23 PM
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To all the newbs the standing rule is you got to be out of 13's to talk smack.
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
It always seems the slow ones (no offense) always seem to be the ones talking trash. Once you build a fast or moderately fast car you understand an appreciate what it takes to make a car perform be it Ford or Chevy. And you throw out the stock ET's on what a car can run out the window. We're all gearheads.
-Mark
What was that guys 1320 time? 13.6. . . .