It's not a tax, it's a fine for breaking the law. I would think someone posting the above claiming to know so much about how things work would know the difference.

 

The above is once again bad info, the police don't work with insurance companies and insurance companies do not directly contribute to police fund raisers etc, the NATIONAL FOP, of which I am a active member specifically bans this type of stuff, they would sooner take money from Ford I think than insurance. What does go on if you want to get involved in the polictical scheme end of all this, (and this isn't anything new this has gone on since the 1960's when computers started to allow "analysis" of all kinds of info like what age people got the most tickets, what cars were involved in more accidents etc) is that Insurance companies get together and pay people to go over all kinds of public records which includes, accident reports and traffic citations. This forms include all the pertinent info they are looking for the classify you, the consumer into groups that they can then decide to charge you the 25 y/o guy w/ the red mustang as xxx% of greater risk of getting into an accident with $XX amount of damage they would pay out for, and that when the same operator gets citation for XX this changes the likelyhood that same operator gets into accident by XX%... What also goes on and this is the stinky part is that the Insurance industry maintains a huge lobby of persons that communicate with elected officials on all levels and contribute money to PAC(Political Action Committee) which then attempt to push their agenda onto said politician. Their agenda as pointed out already is to have more citations written, esp in conjunction with accidents, and to increase the specific info avail on all these forms that they can then access later on. For instance in PA, the accident reports that are now completed by police used to be on a single page, in the past 10 years that has changed to 7+ pages, complete with extra pages specifically for motorcylces, pedestrians and commercial vehicles. The politicians then seek to "encourage" police on all levels to follow this by legislating these forms and adding more and more vehicle code violations by the year, such as talking on cellphone, seatbelt and helmet laws etc... If I gave you a copy of the actual vehicle code you would think it was a phone book.... They also make sure to send out OverTime to police in the form of state or federal "operations" which are nothing more than OT for citations, the places that write the most citations get the most OT dedicated to them.
If you guys think this info stinks just ask me about the info stored in ur OBDII car's PCM and the fact that you have probably signed away the ability to prevent YOUR insurance company from accessing this info after a crash and refusing to pay your claim if they can show negligance on your behalf... DON't GET ME STARTED!!!

 

Multimigs,

So you are saying what this guy did qualifies as breaking the law?
If that was the case then everyone on this board is a law breaker.

Who hasn't layed a little rubber with a fast car?

**** 99% of all the cops can be considered law breakers.

Cops speed, they talk on their cell phones while driving, they take lights when not on an official call, park illegally, ect, ect.....all this on and off the clock.

So it's ironic when a grown adult takes his father in law for a ride to show off his car and squels a little rubber he should have the book thrown at him.

What should have happened was this:
Driver do you have a clean record?

Cop reviews his license, yes it's clean.

Cop tells driver, it's a nice day slow down
and I don't want to see you driving like this again

driver gets a firm warning
driver acknowleges

good day end of story.

As for claiming I know everything, I never said I know everything.
But it's known fact that generating citations is just another form of taxation so that the government can generate money.

Go read the article in I believe Car and Driver where they talk about all this speed cameras and stop light cameras and how they generate a ton of revenue to be used to offset budget deficits.

As for the thing with insurance companies. They donate money to politicians who in turn tell the Police to give out more tickets. And insurance companies can donate money to things like PAL which is not directly the Police but organizations run by the Police.

It's just ironic how recently in the NY,NJ PA area the Police have been giving a ton more tickets, parking tickets, ect. All because the municipalities are hurting for money.

So are the streets more dangerous now because people are poor and out of work?
Therefore we need more cops to give out more tickets.

Or is it just another form of taxation?

 

Same thing happened to me once, except I got three different citations totaling $700. I beat two of the three and only had to pay $50.

+1 Fight every ticket no matter what. I've never hired a lawyer, but I've had two tickets thrown out and then a pretty good result on the one mentioned above.

 

well i just called and found out the disorderly is going to cost 357 and the carless driving is 110 and 3 points which when my insurance finds out will make the prem. go up 25%. I just really have no words of this situation. I was extremely polite to the cop, did exactly what he wanted, he even asked me what was done to the car, original paint, sounds good- then he goes and tells me to fight it. How can you fight something you actually did but feel the punishment is way to harsh?

 

Hottest What did u tell the cop. You will hear that back in court. Did you say I did a burn out? If you did pay the ticket. If you said I have no idea what you are talking about. It must have been someone else. Then in court say my car is legal but it can be loud that must be what you heard if is was me, but i never did anything. I never turned a tire. I just rolled away from the stop sign.

Once you tell the cop you did it, it is done. Tell him what you want to hear back in court. It must have been someone going the other way. He will have to repeat that.

 

he never even asked me what I did. He said how are you doing, license and reg, insurance. Told me to hang tight-he wanted to go back and measure my burnout lines. Came back and said he is going to write me a ticket for spinning out and fishtail noise(I nodded) but didn't say a word, he then said that he had to write me up for taking up his time and I guess that was for the disorderly. I then went back to the place I did it and there were no lines, but he didn't says or write down that there were.

 

when i think im gettin pulled over i run. goten away 4 times wont run from HWYPatrol

 

I didnt read all the posts, so I dont know what advise everybody gave you. I believe the cop has to witness the action, or a citizen would have to and provide the officer with the info. I would fight both tickets. Whos to say that there wasnt another car going the opposite direction that did the burnout. The cop cant prove that it was you or another car. Plus doing a "fishtail/burnout" is not part of the disorderly conduct statute! And again how can he prove that it was your car making all the noise, theres alot of cars on the road with loud exhausts. Just my 2 cents.

 

Ok, I've been over this before, but you were cited for D.C. which under section 5503(a)2 is defined as "makes unreasonable noise" or subsection (a)4 "creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor"

The cop can easily testify that you were in a residential area, the due to his training/experience he knows the difference between a stock exhaust and aftermarket, that there are numerous complaints from the residents regarding loud cars and that while he did not see ur burnout, he heard it, then saw ur car, stopped you to confirm your type of exhaust wasn't stock and then checked the immediate area as he was driving back to look for burnout marks and didn't see any other vehicles capable of making the noise. You don't have to admit to anything just this testimony alone is enough for the preliminary hearing which needs to show that beyond a resonable doubt you were the person operating the car which made the noise.

The careless driving citation he will probably lose because again he did not see you driving the car, there is a chance however that the judge will just allow both instead of dismissing one or the other. Again I highly recommend that you go in and volunteer to plead guilty on the DC and pay it on the spot if they drop the careless citation, as there is no points etc with that and has no effect on ur insurance. I realize it a lot of $$ but would be cheaper in the long run. Otherwise if you do decide to have a hearing and testify you would be better off not saying a whole lot and just asking questions of the police like "did you look on other side streets etc for other cars which had aftermarket exhaust, did you measure my exhaust with any type of sound meter" etc..

Try to realize that the police could have tried to impound ur car, or cite you for other vehicle code things like 3361 Driving vehicle at safe speed, 3367 Racing on Highways, any number of vehicle inspection issues like aftermarket exhaust etc.... You are trying to lessen the fact that you did something which caused you to be pulled over without realizing that where you did it at and the complaints received by the police and any orders issued to them by local politicians or administration may have more to do with what you got citations for instead of how you behaved or what the cop thought about your car.

Good luck otherwise

 

I say go buy a clutch kit and bring that to the hearing.. say "my clutch was slipping, which could make the engine sound like I was spinning tires, but the officer's own statement says there were no tire marks on the road surface. I have since replaced the slipping clutch, here's the receipt for the parts"

Spend lawyer money on a clutch, AND beat a ticket.. win-win!

 

damn that sucks OP! I had a similiar situation once on a 'show what it can do' ride with a buddy. I raged it from 1st through 3rd right near his house. I was almost to his driveway when I came along a cop sitting on another road waiting for me at which point I was doing under the speed limit. he pulled right out and I didnt want to find out what was going to happen so I did a tricky evasion and eventually ended up back in my buddy's driveway where we hid my car and took off in his. cops were everywhere.. I always wondered what the cop would of done tho. GL fighting it!

 

Ummmm yeah. It did happen. Was on Rt 15 which is the called the Merrit Pkwy/Berlin Turnpike.

Got pulled over because I flashed my converted on a slow roll. Got grilled about "racing" a friend, I had my DR's and a helmet in the side seat. I was VERY respectful and didnt fall for any traps and I did get a Promise to Appear.

Since the ticket was thrown out, I dont know if there is any more records that can be researched but this is no B.S. and know that it DOES WORK!

 

I have had my attitude towards the officer help me out on MORE than a handful of occasions. It does go a long way in helping you out... In the end...why not be respectful and polite? How does being any other way help you out what so ever???

I got pulled over once in my 305 87 TA. It was November, there was salt and crap on the roads, and I was making a tight left from a stop sign. Posi car, inner wheel starts skipping in the piles of salt as I turned. Cop pulls me over because he said I took off hard and spun my tires. Ok... well I didnt mean to do it, but I wasnt goign to argue on the side of the road.

This guy offers me a choice. Reckless driving or Careless driving...?? One had a bigger fine but no points...one had a smaller fine, but 3 points. Well... I decide Ill take big fine no points. Turns out instead of points, it was a 15 day license suspension. He didnt know this. He knew NOTHING about the code book. So I fought it, he kindly switched the ticket for me...but I was already screwed with the license thing. I ended up having to hire a lawyer, and jump through tons of hoops to get everything wiped clean. In the end, the DA ended up basically scolding the cop for wasting my time and money, as well as the court's time...

Bottom line...dont always assume the cop knows every single law code and can prove it. If you know you are in the right, fight the ticket. I spent a week in the West Chester library researching the codes and what not before I appealed with a court case to get my license back and record cleared. If you have a decent record, and present your case in a professional manner...you have a good chance.

When you go to court...where a suit or atleast nice clothes. Not FUBU gear and a hat... Speak as properly as you can. Have your information in front of you, organized and ready to go so if they ask you something, you dont have to say UM every time. Apologize for the officer having to use his time (yeah yeah i know)... Tell them you appreciate them hearing your side...

Its all a suck up routine. Just like you should do on the side of the road when the cop initially pulls you over. It really does help in most cases. But pick your battles. Sometimes its better to have a lawyer do it. In some cases it wont even make it to trial after your lawyer talks to the DA.

Ok..im done babbling. OP...good luck with whatever you decide to do!!

J.

 

I certainly agree.

I have been to court about 10 times, only paid for one ticket, never went to the judge. In CT our 1st offense is not used against us for insurance

You can imagine how many people do not look up, acting mopey, mumbling, hands in the pockets. They almost always get a date to show up.

I act cheerful, bright eyed. I also say. "Good Morning" and I think that goes a long way.

 

see the problem I face is that My word against his will not work, it never works. He wrote a the ticket for noise violation( first on a sunday afternoon there is not noise ordinance(well atleast never heard of anyone getting pulled for it), second what about all the harley's with drag pipes, third why is a 50 state legal aftermarket exhaust going to get me a noise ticket?) I will not go into the court and lie and say I didn't do it because I did, I just feel as if it was my first offense in 12 yrs of driving, I wasn't breaking any speed laws, and didn't ruin any property, there was no one around I checked but the cop was sitting up a side street waiting for me. I feel like I got treated like a harden criminal with a long wrap sheet.
I don't have the money for a suit or a lawyer let alone the fines this adds up, lost all OT, first baby is on the way, barely can afford my mortgage!

 

I thought when you plead not guilty it goes right to court? I never had a ticket let alone a reason to fight one. Completely ignorant to it all. To many feelings at one time is hard to handle

 

Ok... here is your position then. You did something that "technically" was citable. You happened to do it near a cop. It sounds like so far, you handled the situation with a positive attitude.

You got the tickets...it cant get any worse.

My suggestion would be fight the tickets. You've been clean for a long time. When you talk to the judge, be honest...but not TOO honest. Tell him/her that you admit that you might have used more than adequate throttle to get moving but that at no time did you speed. What I mean about being TOO honest is... dont go saying "my car is modded and makes 100 more hp than stock and I was just testing it out". That just doesnt sound good at all, and all you are doing is admitting you built a car for performance driving...hence your situation. Let them know that you have stayed clean and driven responsible for a long time. Admit that it wasnt the brightest thing to do, apologize, say you appreciate that the officer did his job and basically ask them to cut you a break.

Whether a break is completely off the hook, or just a fine with no points...or just going with the lesser of the two tickets, anything is better than nothing. If you talk to them...most times they will have some form of understanding. This goes back to the whole being polite and courteous thing. Explain to them that if not thing else, you would like the points taken away so your insurance doesnt go up..you know...economic rough times and all.

Either that..or just eat the tickets and go about your day. Try to stay away from points for the next handful of years so they dont add up. But...if I were in your shoes, I would try to get out of it. And you dont need a suit....just dont go in dirty scumbag clothes. Kakis and a nice button up shirt will go a long way over jeans and a hoodie. Dont have kakis and a button up? Walmart has em cheap. Since you dont have a record of this type of driving, I would say if you play your cards right, you have a really good chance of walking out of there with something lesser if not having the whole thing cleared.

Dont forget...a lot of times the cop will meet with you in private before meeting with the judge. In all the times that I appealed my tickets, the cop talked to me first. Try to work with him and explain the situation in a polite manner. He wont budge? Then you'll have to try to work your magic on the judge. The judge can and does overthrow the cops decision on occasions.

Again...good luck man. Do some research on those vehicle codes and compare them to the actual events. It will make you sound more intelligent and prepared. Print stuff out, bring it with you in case you need to defend what you are stating.

Oh...by the way. Sometimes you will find that the cop is just unwilling to bend, and he just wants to stick you. I wasnt there, so I dont know about your cop. Sometimes they are hard asses on the street, but when you meet them they are having a better day. But dont lose your cool if he's still being hard on you. Like you said, its his word against yours anyway. All you can do is hope they give you a break.

J.


Man I type alot...

 

As far as I know...atleast here in PA, when you plead not guilty, it basically does mean you go to court. But again, sometimes the cop will meet with you before its time to even talk to the judge and you work it out with him. Then its just a matter of going in, the cop tells the judge here is what we worked out, the judge says sounds ok to me, and youre done. If you cant work it out with the cop...then you gotta present your case to the judge. Which can be intimidating, but as long as its not judge judy, its not too bad. They are just normal people.

I showed up one time and it was snowing like crazy. Cop didnt show, thought I was off the hook. Judge CALLED the cop and put me on speaker phone The judge was in jeans and his robe. haha. Quite entertaining. But more than that, it made me so comfortable that the judge was so informal. Dont count on that though.

J.

 

If you get the option to plead, then you get a court date and see the Prosecutor, and then from there they decide if your going and what date. OR they have sometimes offered to throw out the ticket for a Donation or outright Nalli Or Nally (sp).

With my Promise to Appear, I do not have that option. I have to show up.