WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

Not at all! You have the right to choose what ever vehicle you choose to drive, that’s the great thing about this country, until Obama tells us all to drive Priuses, but that’s a different topic all together.

This is the greatest country in the world, but to say that we make the best cars is simply asinine.

I don’t know… that he/she likes to perpetuate the unbalanced practice of the UAW to continue to bleed dry the US car company so that their members without a college education can earn twice the money of the average college grad for doing one quarter the work? Bravo!

Buying American cars only contributes to the most Un-American practice ever seen! Drive past the Edison offices of the UAW next to the deceased Ford plant and see the sign for your self “All import vehicles will be towed at owners expense” Wow! That is so “American” of them! THAT is what you are supporting Marc!

If they are so wonderful then why is GM, Ford, and Chrysler in the *******? If they are awesome cars, with awesome value, wouldn’t they be selling millions of them around the world and making a ton of profit? Or have they built such **** cars, for so long, and **** on the consumer for so long that most have turned their backs on the “Big 3” to the point where even their increased quality and decreased prices, decreased profitability will not turn most consumers back?

Plus, you speak of performance cars as if it is the only category of vehicle on the road. When I drive down the road I see a lot more Toyota Camrys on the road then I do mustangs. That is because performance vehicles are the only sector in which the US even has a chance to battle with the import brands.

Yes the G8 will out perform a BMW 525, but which one is quiter inside? Which one has better interior? [don't call me Olyver, Ill kick you in the nuts!]

We all look for that thrill when we press the throttle, but not everyone does. And we are in the minority. The majority would rather get the BMW over the G8, not to mention that BMW will still lease, as apposed to GM wich will sell you a G8 and have you deal with the plumiting resale value. What can you get a '08 G8 GT for now? 23K? with only a few thousand miles? Down from 32K sticker? Awesome value there!

When it comes to HP/$ the US has it, when it comes to everything else... our cars blow big floppy donckey dick.

I love my car, its fast, but it was never luxurious, so for me, at 18, it worked! But I am not everyone else, and everyone else, likes the Civic.

This is true, we do make the best trucks. But that is only because the rest of the world does has not until only recently. But who knows, maybe in 10 years GMC will no longer exist, and the Fiat Ram 1500 will be the best truck of the year.



But who cares if no one buys them? And if in a few years, for all we know, they will not even be made anymore. GM is not leasing, Honda is, and in today market, most people lease, its cheaper, you don’t have to worry about selling the car in 3 years. And generally, people simply don’t keep cars for as long as they used to. My Mom has had 4 cars in the last 10 years, all Mitsubishi, and she loves her orange rice rocket lol Mitsubishi gave her a deal that no American company could match, so why should she pay more?

I never said the ’84 vette will die… I wish it did… ugly as ****. But still.

Technology is changing at an exponential rate, so the change from 1984 to 2014 will not be as drastic as it will be from 2002 to 2032. Yes you can buy an Atari today, but I doubt you will find a PS3 in 2032.

I am sure some bright mind can build a replacement for the current GM LSx PCM, and maybe even re-write the software to tune it, but I do not see it happening readily. It was simply easier to fix a 1970 car today, that it will be today’s cars in 30 years, and because of that, I don’t see our cars being worth much. But hey, come find me in 30 years and tell me I was wrong… Ill try and do the same lol

Mr. B

iTrader: (1)

I watched (with great dismay) the comparison of Japanese auto workers to that of the American counterpart.

The Japanese were far more disciplined, had actual uniforms and pride, and turned out a far better product for less money.. but more importantly- the profited even with the additional shipping costs!

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Oh really?
And buying a Japanese car, supporting the Japanese way of doing business (ie: protectionism, closed markets, HUGE tariffs/taxes on anything that's NOT Japanese owned/manufactured), that IS "American" in your eyes?
They wave the banner of globalization/capitalism/free markets when it suits their needs but when asked to play fair, a courtesy that they are afforded with open arms in the U.S., they cite a series of lame excuses as to why their brand of "open markets" are essentially one way.
So much for the principles of fair trade.
A Toyota/Honda vehicle might sell for the same or even less here than it does in Japan (hints of dumping, a very unethical practice, comes to mind) yet a $20k Chevrolet or Ford might command $38k over there, of course no one's going to buy it LOL.
That appears to me to be about as unAmerican as it gets.
You buy mine, I buy yours.







Do some research on some of the pure **** that Japan was sending over here back in the '50s, '60s and even early '70s. Rusting, oil burning pieces of feces that were the punchline to numerous jokes and almost no one bought. They've obviously improved their vehicles and service since then and people buy them now.
It just takes time for the consumer to 'catch on'.
Yes there were some dark times at GM, Ford and Chrysler (just as there once was at Toyota, Honda and Datsun) but they too market some great cars now as well.
We just need some more time.

Omec

iTrader: (2)

dude your talking about **** that Ford has been doing ever since day one. Please, just for fun (honestly you will learn a lot) read up on the American automobile and its FULL history. just a small bit of info - when ford started to get really big and was a successor of the assembly line they needed to expand. not only did mr. Ford take in illegal immigrants but gave them the opportunity to become legal, law abiding, tax paying US citizens. not just giving them paper work but via ceremony. weird **** you wouldn't see today like making them jump into a giant black pot w/ their ethnic close on and climb out wearing suit and ties. this wasnt a form of mockery but rather a sense of self worth and pride. the "pride" aspect went out the window along *** time ago but ford has always really maintained the "built in America" image and that sign doesnt shock me in the least nor do i think its wrong.

to say that imports are far better cars than american cars is debatable and not one person is right or wrong. its an opinion. as far as im concerned, imports were junk until the early mid 90's. most cars in that time era were. one of the big reasons the classic "K car" is such a joke is because so many people owned them. they sold millions of those things and what i would call cheap as well. the more popular something gets the more its going to be hated. I use to love watching Dane Cook years ago. Now i wish he would go the hell away lol.

the biggest problem the domestic cars have is the "quality" that goes into them. there really hasnt been until recently. unless you spent a tone of money of course. but its too late for them. the import market has already passed by them while the big 3 were counting their money. when i ask people why they prefer imports over domestics i always get the same response "they last forever". those arent ricers or import fan boys. just general people that dont know a pcv valve from a muffler bearing. id safely say 75% of people who say they last forever are going by word of mouth. people who have never owned them before say it. so their opinion is worthless. my reply to that is, if you take care of it, it will take care of you. thats why my Beretta has 211 k on it and still runs strong for me.

I agree w/ everything LS1LT1 saying and that we need some time to gain back the respect of customers. i love american cars but it angers me to see people w/ no education making 6 figures a year putting two bolts in. i can def see people shunning them just in-spite of knowing that and i dont disagree.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

Yes, and those damn Japs kill whales as well... Im not saying I like what the Japs do, I am saying I hate how the American Car companies take it in the *** at the behest of the UAW. I hate seeing some retard make $78/Hr and can't count all the teeth he has, which number 7, while I spend years in school to become an Architect, and make less than half that.

The Big-3 allowed themselves to be UAW ******, and now they deserve to die. The men and women working for them suckled on that tit long enough, now they can loose their jobs, and I do not feel sorry for them one bit!

The Japs might have their shitty business practices, but at least they can be profitable. The "Big-3" have shitty business practices and need to beg for money from you and me.


And in the 50's 60's and 70's I would say to buy American... but this is not the 50's 60's and 70's.

Time is up, enought is enough. Puting together cars is unskilled labor. Look at the vactories, more than half the prosses is automated. Some douchebag in Detroit using a 5 bit automated torque wrench to attach one wheel every 3 min to a truck does not deserve $70/Hr, he barely deserves $12/Hr

Think of how much more profitable selling a G8 would be if the cost of labor went from $70 to $20/hour? Hell, they might even be able to afford a center console that does not move 1/2" to either side when pushed with a finger...

Regardless of weather you think Jap cars are better or worse, they turn a proffit. If you cant stay in the black, you should close your doors.

Don't worry, we got a Commi in the white house who will give you my money when you get fired from a job that you get overpaid to do.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

If the GM auto makers want my respect they need to de-unionise, pay a wage that equals the amount of education and skill the worker has, and turn a proffit with their product.

If you were making widgets, that cost you $1000 to make because you pay some guy with a grammer school education $50/hr and use $50 in materials, and no one wants to buy them unless you discont it to $750, you will not be in business long. You can't reduce the material costs to $25/hr because that will create an inferior product, but you can hire someone else to do it for $20/Hr, what will you do? You will hire the guy for $20/hr and start making a $5 proffit. Simple.

**** the UAW

Declare Chapter 11, tear apart the union contract, fire all workers. Then hire them back for 1/3 the wage, no unions allowed. DONE!

Mr. B

iTrader: (1)

Let the taxing on cars commence! (Dems)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A House committee chairman said Tuesday that he wants Congress to enact a mileage-based tax on cars and trucks to pay for highway programs now rather than wait years to test the idea.

Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., said he believes the technology exists to implement a mileage tax. He said he sees no point in waiting years for the results of pilot programs since such a tax system is inevitable as federal gasoline tax revenues decline.

''Why do we need a pilot program? Why don't we just phase it in?'' said Oberstar, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman. Oberstar is drafting a six-year transportation bill to fund highway and transit programs that is expected to total around a half trillion dollars.

A congressionally mandated commission on transportation financing alternatives recommended switching to a vehicle-miles traveled tax, but estimated it would take a decade to put a national system in place.

''I think it can be done in far less than that, maybe two years,'' Oberstar said at a House hearing. He was responding to testimony by Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., who recommended that the transportation bill include pilot programs in every state to test the viability of a mileage-based tax.

Blumenauer said public acceptance, not technology, is the main obstacle to a mileage-based tax.

Pilot programs ''would be able to increase public awareness and comfort and it would hasten the day we could make the transition,'' Blumenauer said.

Oberstar shrugged off that concern.

''I'm at a point of impatience with more studies,'' Oberstar said. He suggested that Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., chairman of the highways and transit subcommittee, set up a meeting of transportation experts and members of Congress to figure out how it could be done.

The tax would entail equipping vehicles with GPS technology to determine how many miles a car has been driven and whether on interstate highways or secondary roads. The devices would also calculate the amount of tax owed.

''At this point there are a lot of things that are under consideration and there is also a strong need to find revenue,'' Oberstar spokesman Jim Berard said. ''A vehicle miles-traveled tax is a logical complement, and perhaps a future replacement, for fuel taxes.''

Gas tax revenues -- the primary source of federal funding for highway programs -- have dropped dramatically in the last two years, first because gas prices were high and later because of the economic downturn. They are forecast to continue going down as drivers switch to fuel efficient and alternative fuel vehicles.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has ruled out raising gas taxes to make up for the funding shortfall, and the White House has rejected a mileage-based tax. They have not offered an alternative.

''The funding of the highway trust fund is a complex issue that will require consultation with Congress and consideration of a number of creative ideas,'' said Transportation Department spokeswoman Jill Zuckman. ''The secretary looks forward to working with Chairman Oberstar and others as they consider how to keep the highway trust fund going.''

A mileage-based tax has been unpopular in some states where it has been proposed. Critics say it unfairly penalizes drivers who live in rural areas and intrudes on privacy.

''When we can solve the equity issues to a majority's satisfaction in the Congress, when we can solve the privacy issues to the satisfaction of the American people, we can look at moving forward, but I just don't think we have the data or the experience right now to say we can set a timeline or a deadline,'' DeFazio said in a recent interview.

Omec

iTrader: (2)

couldnt have said it better my self. this is exactly what needs to happen. what scares me about this tho is now we are going to have more people out of a job (whether or not they deserve it is irrelivent) and less jobs to be had. we have shipped so many jobs over seas, so where are these people going to go? it will just be more money taken out of your paycheck in the end for unemployment. that and these people are going to possibly go to school and further other ave of work. possibly taking your next big job. what i have noticed thats interesting is a lot of job adds in the paper (more factory jobs) are hiring for **** wages. like 3rd shift min wage stuff. with trends like this i wounder how the economy will change. if you dont have a job min wage is better than nothing. and nothing will be better than unemployment soon.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Nah, don't worry. If you listen to "the Econ 101 experts that have all the answers" you will realize that Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW etc will simply hire ALL of the soon to be displaced workers that were once employed at the GM/Ford/Chrysler: plants, suppliers, dealership showrooms, service departments, design studios, marketing departments, advertising firms, printing companies, delis and diners up the street from all of the above, the architects/structural engineers that were once needed to design the buildings for all of the above and so on.
Yeah right, they'll hire them all.
What makes companies like that so profitable and able to survive hard times (unlike the "supposedly" fatter/more lazy domestic automakers) is at the very core of why they're not going to come to the rescue. Their existence is based on absolute efficiency and trimmed operations so don't count on them to lend a hand unless it's only to employ more Japanese, Korean and German citizens.
Everyone takes care of their own first.
Survival of the fittest/only the strong survive is a great concept and has worked quite well up until now but without employment and the extremely critical TAX DOLLARS being generated by said employment the system still fails.
That system could ultimately include the military and national security.

So what does this all mean?
It means that our way of life as we know it could very well be compromised, and yes that includes almost everyone, don't think you're immuned simply because you're not directly affiliated with the U.S. auto industry.
It could even mean that capitalism, like communism, is also potentially doomed and poised to fail (I sure hope not).

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

And why should they hire fat and lazy American auto workers? Clearly they are over payed for for the amount of labor they do and the amount of skill they possess.

The problem is that a system was created to continue to pander to this inefficient way of doing business. over paying workers to produce what is considered by the public to be an inferior product to those made by workers who make less.

And BMW, for one, does hire plenty of Americans in NC, they just do not allow the UAW to control wages and continue to be profitable even on American soil.

I got to tell you Marc, usually you have some pretty good arguments, but this one, at least to me, is filled with ideals of "poor auto worker" and it smells like bullshit to me.

And if you are going after my lack of financial education with that Crack, then don't worry, I did take Econ 101, and I did get an A, and I take my insite from someone who did not loose "the cost of two Vipers" in the marker in the last 6 months.

Why the **** should they? Its not enough that we ask for handouts from the US Government but now we have to ask for handouts from others? WTF is this?


Okay Obama... lets bail everyone out. The US Military Dep. of Homeland Security and NSA have nothing to do with GM Ford and Chrysler. Yu don't hear about Grummen being in trouble? Or Boeing, or Northrup, relax, our military is safe without the Chevy Malibu.


Capitalism will not fail, because by definition it will allow the market to balance itself in due time. Its when you go ******* with it like bailing out banks and buying out auto makers that it starts to tip the other way. Leave it the **** alone, let GM go out of business, Let Chrysler get bought up by Fiat, and you will see that in due time, the jobs will come back, and so will the tax revenue. That is what the market does. It goes up and down, YOU of all people should know that! People will loose their jobs because they are over payed, then when the market figures out what their pay should be, they can choose to get payed the market value for their work, or stay at home and play with their pecker saying "Well I used to get three times as much but, now I either have to take a pay cut because I did not deserve that money in the first place, or I can continue to sit at home and sling pud in my eye"

The jobs will come back, but not for $78/hr. They will come back at the rate they should have been before the UAW ruined the "Big-3"

It may take a few years, but it will come back.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Probably closer to the cost of three Vipers and it was more like over the last 18 months...but don't worry, I still have plenty of "Vipers" left.
Until Obama and company take them away of course.







I for the most part can agree there and I do hope that you're right...but I still quoted it just in case you're not. We'll revisit this one in 10-20 years and see.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

LOL

YES!

If this forum is around in 10-20 tears lol

Don't worry, we'll settle this the old fashion way, tonight, at CARTEK, beak knuckle boxing!

hahahahahaha

KLaBZ28

iTrader: (4)

I should convert my Z/28 to a T/A while I still can...