Unions have run their course, and now serve no purpose. Noone is arguing that at one point in time, workers needed unions in order to secure safe work conditions. But back then we didn't have OSHA to mandate safe work conditions.

I still have a hard time understanding how people can agree on a set pay increase for years in advance when every year I have to bust my but and seperate myself from others by actually working hard in order to get a nice bonus and raise.

All unions do is allow mediocrity in the workplace. Why work hard when everyone around you can goof off and do just enough not to get fired and you're still gauranteed your 3-5% pay raise at the end of the year?

Unions support and shelter the lazy, while pushing away the hard workers.

 

Do not speak for all Union workers when you speak that way, because you're only talking about a small minority of union employees who don't produce. I was a union member (Plumbers-Pipefitters) for 15 yrs. before I started my own business and RARELY saw what you describe. Most union employees work as hard as anyone else, and if in the building trades, face larger safety and health risks than a person tapping away on a computer keyboard all day, for sure. Do away w/the unions and you'll become a government puppet, working for a wage that they set--with you having absolutely no bargaining power whatsoever. And the fat cat big business owners will keep getting richer and richer and more rich. How about our government doing something about affordable health care and assenine energy costs? Talk about unions--the people in the medical and energy business have a license to steal, and Washington just sits back and lets them jam it down our throats.... WJ

 

Union did there job, GM being Dumbasses agree to it. Don't blame the Union blame GM for signing the contract. I would've told the Union to go F themselves. They made their own pile of ****.

 

I understand what you are saying and I don't say every union worker is the same, but the premise behind a union is such that it protects the people who would otherwise be fired.

Personally, I like competing for raises, bonus and promotions and not relying on what my union negotiates for a raise.

As far as safety goes, I am a chemist and one wrong move and I don't go home at the end of a day and can cause catostophic harm to others and the environment, but we are constantly under watch to be as safe of an environment as possible and we don't need a union to do it. That's all I'm saying. If unions went away, the cream would rise to the top and if you were good at what you did, you'd still make a good living. It's the people that half-*** it that would be hurting.

 

if you could count on an employer to be fair and care about its workers unions wouldnt be needed but sadly thats not the case.


if corp. had their choice theyd pay as little as possible or layoff every few yrs. to keep costs down.



thered be no such thing as pensions,benefits and OT if it werent for unions and dont kid yourself about that going away if employers had their choice.


now i agree GM and the UAW need to work together to solve this problem.


would you want your pension taken away after you put in 30 yrs. with a co. just because they can do it?



dont be so quick to dump all of GMs problems on unions.


mngt. was just as greedy.it wasnt the UAW that decided to use cheaper parts and make less efficent vehicles.

from what i know the foreign car makers here pay similar wages and benefits to its workers.they just dont have the added expense of retirees.


the big three have lost marketshare due to many bad decisions over the yrs. and it had nothing to do with the UAW.



but thats all in the past and its time to stop blaming and start making cars people want.

 

If there were no unions, employers would love to pay ALL their employees min. wage. I wonder if anyone could pay a $2500 a month mortgage/tax on $5 and change an hour. Why would an employer pay a worker $20 + an hour if someone was willing to do the job for less. Union job wages are usually between 20k and 125k a year, the average is usually just enough to pay the bills, union workers dont get rich working, but the owners would get alot richer if they could, its called greed. Unions just keep this greed thing in check.

 

I agree. We have enough laws on the books now that we don't need unions to shelter employees from their empoloyers.

 

Tony, I think you're missing the point a little. You mention that it wasn't the UAW that decided to use cheaper parts, etc. But in a way it was. With the task of paying underqualified overpaid union laborers the unprecidented sums of cash and benefits they recieve, management sometimes has to cut costs to remain competative. If Japco is paying an average of $700 per car labor and USA Co. is paying $1,500 per car labor, then USA Co. must eliminate $800 worth of overhead per car to be on a level playing field. If that means less standard featurs, or cheaper components, or thinner sheet metal that lengthens the life of their multi million dollar tooling, then that's what it's going to take.

The fact is that a large number of the union auto workers I've met, although nice people, have very limited qualifications. They're basicly human robots, trained like monkeys to do a fairly simple task over, and over, and over. All of the difficult work is done in engineering, where they design ways for low skill labor to do their job quickly, safely, and with little chance of screwing something up. Yet these employees still demand princely sums of money, benefits, and other incentives from the companies. In any other industry, they would be making $8, 9, or possibly $12 an hour for their work. I've been to OEM's and trust me, aside from the skilled labor like pipe fitters, machinists, electricians, millwrights, etc (who are on a different although still exorbitant) payscale, most of the actual factory work that needs to be done is extrordinarely simple. "Insert this part to this fixture, insert this part to that fixture, push the green button, take welded part out and put in this bin, repeat". Overall 90% of the line work is less difficult than running a cash register, and I don't see anyone clammoring to pay cashiers $25 an hour with fully paid benefits and pensions.

You're right about some things, like the OEM's making some dumb decisions. It doesn't help, but the UAW is a big knife in the side. You mention that foreign companies don't have to deal with retirees, but I think what you fail to notice is the incredible cost of pensions and, perhaps to an even greater extent, lifetime health benefits.

 

I highly doubt that. Empoloyers will pay what the market demands, and don't kid yourself, a skilled worker will demand a higher pay. It works the other way too, don't forget employeers NEED workers, both skilled and unskilled, to survive. I've worked at PLENTY of non-union jobs and more often than not the pay rate matched the job requirements. In my days as a machinist, I worked at some small mom and pop places that did fairly low end work, and, guess what, pay rate was lower. They don't need a top toolmaker and likewise aren't paying for one. On the other end of the spectrum, I've worked at some shops that had almost nothing BUT top toolmakers, and they all made out well. Employees are an investment just like any other peice of equipment, and if you need a highly skilled worker who is experienced, knowledgable, educated, and reliable then you pay that person a lot of dough. If you need a common laborer to do simple tasks, then you pay that person less. That's how a free market society should work, and if someone's not willing to put forth the effort to make themselves desiable in the workforce, then they don't deserve to make as much as someone who has worked their butt off.

That's the concept that some of these unions, like the UAW, are ignoring. The concept that everyone should make equal pay regardless of their job status is uncomfortably similar to another tried-and-failed concept of social equity; communism.

Just my $0.02

 

when its proven that GM will pass the savings onto us by having cheaper labor which will never happen id rather have americans making a descent living building cars in america.


the UAW was there when GM had 50% of the marketshare and there wasnt a problem.


now that they lost half of that and are continuing to lose more they choose to blame high labor costs instead of making vehicles people wanted or want.


fact is the UAW has agreed to downsizing and plant closings in exchange for keeping their benefits and pensions.


it hasnt been all take from them like people would like to believe.


right now theyre working with GM to assist in reducing costs.they didnt have to.their existing contract isnt up until 2007 but theyre well aware it might be too late due to GMs current financial situation.


im not against reducing inefficency at assembly plants.automation is part of the auto industry and less people are needed.


what it comes down to right now is people just arent buying vehicles from GM and if things dont pickup soon they can cut back all they wont it wont save them.


weather you like unions or not its a loss for us all when americans lose their jobs.


its ok for big corp. to make as much as they can but when unions try to theyre called greedy.


i just hope GM can pull out of this without anymore layoffs.

 

Don't think for 1 minute that just GM and its employees are the only ones that will suffer from all this. It's going to trickle down through many businesses. As was stated before--As GM goes, so goes the country, and our problems lie well beyond organized labor and the auto workers union. Time you union-haters realize that.... WJ

 

Well, I'll withold the union bashing. But the UAW could save alot of face if they would at least accept that the workers are going to have to contribute to their healthcare costs, like every other worker in this country. GM UAW employees are as far as I know the only workers in the nation who don't pay a cent for healthcare. With the healthcare costs being what they are these days, they are going to have to accept modern economic reality and contribute a portion like everyone else in the workforce.

But OTOH I agree whoever was the genious on management's side to sign off on that provision of the contract should be spit shining cars in Siberia.

 

As I sit here in Kentucky, having come to the vette plant (Wed) all I can say is this UAW has run its course. So many employees, wont lift a finger...have many breaks, never began to see anyone attempt to hurry or break a sweat...its so disgusting to come to a plant, with hope and desire..to be let down by watching the fleecing of one of Americas Greatest sucess stories. The unions, along with the poor decisions of GM management, have together brought this company to a place where severe cuts are fineally necessary.
Unions have and have had their place, but in some ways hurt capitalism and the free market.. at least in the automotive and perhaps teachers cases..along with other issues where the government can be blames (high tarrifs of our cars in other countires).
No matter what, what I saw in the vette plant made me sick... low skilled workers owning the joint. They looked , well..soooo...lacksadasical... and not for quality reasons..I think it is the union community at work. When break time came once..one guy worked for like an extra minute..and was razzed pretty hard for it... like they were really yelling at him.

 

Unions are precisely the reason why most of the unionized trucking companies are no longer in business. Without UPS, Teamsters would have disappeared along with Hoffa.

 

And another thing about unionized companies while I am feeling spry this morning. Most companies that I deliver to that have a union workforce are **** stops. The people are extremely rude and arrogant towards any non union driver. Laziness is abundant and there is absolutely no desire from anyone to help you in anyway. Two particular Postal centers in the philly area have employees who blantantly disregard and disrespect the job by SLEEPING OUT IN THE OPEN DURING WORK HOURS!!! Others are playing cards, reading or doing something other than the work they are paid to do! Without that union, their *** would have been fired long ago, and rightfully so! And I love that union slogan I see on billboards from time to time
"Respect and dignity that you deserve!"
Ahh, no *******. Those are EARNED, not handed out automatically.

 

I'm in a union and proud of it

 

im with u don, i have been in the union since 99 and my father was a union pipefitter in the union for over 40 yrs. he was never laid off and worked his *** off and yes the pay is set at one level, but if u a good worker and make ur boss money then the extras come in. like paid holidays and vacations and bonuses here and there. its not just the union, its how ur boss treats u too.

 

If you're not happy w/your visit to the Corvette Plant in Bowling Green--sorry. As long as the quality of the cars rolling off the line remains good, who cares? It sounds like the employees are having a good time there while building a car that America loves....Maybe you'd like to bring in some Dunkin' Donuts or Seven-11 employees to run the Corvette plant?? WJ

 

You missed the point completely.
"As long as the quality of the cars rolling off the line remains good, who cares?"

Um, I care... "its the economy stupid" (in jest, relax)

Fun...they were not having fun from what I saw..no smiles, no talk.. it was like watching lazy widgets. I loved the experience, but I was just so unimpressed with the workers. Especially the tour guide... who said the Zo6 was 700 HP until she was corrected. As far and DandD or 7-11, I think they should bring it to me..why, cause trust me when I say... many these folks ARE NOT hard workers. Now, there may be some who were..Im not on the inside obviously, like a state job, or the 80/20 rule.. some folks were doing more than their share Im sure.. but the monotony must be rough. I think GM did a good job af making this production line as "mistake" proof as possible.

In all seriousness, the point Im trying to make here is that I beleive if the union was not involved, there would be ...at least a more profitable center here for GM. Now, you being a liberal (not meant derogatory), Your probably not a fan of capitalism, but profit is good. I dont think GM would be using slave labor and I do think we have some good worker protections built into most state and federal employer mandates these days. There is a place for unions, I wont argue that, there was more of a need in the past than today I believe. Some of the older stronger unions are reeping big rewards through incrementialism though. Like some of the stateside built import car makers, I'd like to see GM a non union shop. or at least partially. I think it would increase profit and allow better competition.

Bottom line: Some unions are out of control and have too much power,the UAW is one of them.

Thats my 2 cents. It may only be worth one cent now...

 

when corp. treat employees fairly theyll be no need for unions but that will never happen...