This does not look too promising, either for General Motors, or the U.S. Usually, as GM goes, the Country goes...Lots of citizens going to be unemployed very shortly. WJ

 

I kind of get the same feeling.... GM cutting jobs, closing plants, intrest rates slowly creeping up, the cost of heating this year is going to be a drain on alot of people. I'm predicting a slow holiday sales season for retailers and all of those things don't add up to a great short term out look anyway... long term is still up in the air.. But thats just my oppinion

 

THe economy is actually still pretty strong. However the economy runs in a cycle. IT doesnt matter who is in office or what is going on in the world. IT always runs in a cycle going up and down.

 

Everyone is so ready to blame Bush but don't realize the economy is cyclic

 

So, you and Scotty actually think Bush is doing a great job in there? WJ

 

As painful as the layoffs and closing are, they are actually a good sign for GM. It shows that GM's management is taking tough actions to shore up revenue, profits, and earning per share. The share price recently rebounded from $21.29 on 11/16 to $24.05 on 11/18. That's an increase of around 13%! If you look at a 5 year chart on GM, now is what some might consider a buying opportunity for long term investors. And btw, many of those being laid off have a severance pkg paying full salary and full benefits until next November! It still sucks to lose your job, but damn the general is taking care of them pretty damn good. A typical severance is one week's pay for every year you worked for a co.

 

Hope what you're saying turns out to be a positive thing down the road, but things are starting to get a little scary. People are starting to take considerably longer to pay my invoices, and most of my work consists of small plmbg-htng service and repair jobs...This means they're falling behind on their other bills also. I'm old enough to have seen this happen a # of times, and it usually spells a few down years for most everyone. Time will tell. WJ.

 

The housing market it starting to drop, and that had been propping up the economy. NYC and the surrounding areas have been declining since the summer, except Rockland where the market treaded water. The fuel costs are definitely going to put a damper on Christmas spending and personal debt, which is already too high for everyone. But OTOH now the stock market is slowly growing, so perhaps that can gain momentum to offset inflation and the housing market decline. Time will tell.

 

Well I can vouch for the lay offs @ GM i was one of them in 2000 @ the Desert proving grounds. it sucked and that was around the time when the camaro died, I dont ever see the vette dieing so be greatfull to see the new Z06 and i will just wait to see if the new camaro dies out which will suck but be glad on what we got now.
Later

 

 

Watch the special interest and performance GM vehicles real close. There should be some real give-aways on the SSR's, GTO's, SS Cobalts before long. The Z06 will probably have production roll backs to keep the price up, along with the high performance Caddy's. If people can't afford these things as interest rates go up and unemployment takes a jump, it may even stop the new Camaro from ever being released...Ford is also dumping people, and although Chrysler is making a big splash w/the 425 pony Hemi's in the 300 and Charger, w/ talk of the Hemi-Challenger, production of these cars could become quite limited, or even order-built only production. Again, time is gonna tell...WJ

 

I made this prediction a while back..

https://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-members/309209-general-trouble.html

 

its not looking good.

both sides need to work together to get GM back on top.

 

Perhaps if the UAW didn't demand salaries twice what the industry standard is for low skill factory work, three times the vacation, sick, and personal days than anyone else in the world gets, sky high pensions and the best health benefits money can buy then 30,000 people would still have jobs.

The fact is the union prices themselves out of the market, especially since now more than ever we need to compete with Japan, lower priced European imports, and perhaps most importantly coming threats from countries like Korea. Hyundai has incredible qualty compared to what they were a few years ago. What they don't have is overpaid union workers to pay for, so they deliver a quality product, perhaps a better quality product in some aspects, for the same or lesser price. Living in a free market as we do, the company who delivers the most for less wins.

 

You are soooo right. I started this exact thread over on ls2.com. Basically I wonder if GM was NOT unionized would they still have to lay off? Doubt it....Bottom line, if more people believed in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and their were no unions GM wouldn't be in this mess....

 

My uncle works for GM and in the last 25 years my mom can't recall him working for more than six months out of the year and he would receive 95% of his salary during his "down time." It's laughable how much their employees get for the amount of work they do. It's costing GM billions and all its doing is adding to the price tag. Unions were meant to help the workers, but if it forces GM out of business it wouldn't be doing them too much good, would it?

 

I would't so much say it is "laughable" as much as it is disgusting.

I have no problem with fair pay for an honest day's work but what the modern unions are doing is nothing short of extortion. Unions were started in days when workers faced 10, 12, and even longer shifts, 6 and 7 days a week, for little pay, with no breaks, and horrible conditions. Basicly they were started to give workers what they deserved, and HONEST day's pay and human working conditions.

What they've become is self serving monopolys, bent on power with little if any regard for the actual workers they're supposed to "protect". They brainwash their members to believe they deserve more money or better benefits and such, as if they're not getting way above market value as it is. The result is the union lawyers keep raking in those union dues, spending day after day in court, litigating contract sinings, drafting policies, etc.

Unfortionately, I think it's time that America re-evaluates the union situation. They have grown out of control and if anything could probably be pinned for extortion. Their ties to organized crime and corruption are public knowledge.

I have a perfect example of union stupidity. I work for a large machine tool manufacturer. My job is to service and install equipment on site. I was recently at a large OEM manufacturer in Detroit for an installation. Despite the fact that my company will send out a tech (such as myself) for several days at no expense to the customer for installation, I was not allowed to touch the machine until it was completely assmebled. I was only allowed to make final adjustments and tests. That means the company had to pay two union pipefitters, for two entire days, to install the equipment under my eye (would have been 4 hours work for me). Now how much sense does it make to pay these guys probably a combined salary of over a thousand dollars in wages, benefits, etc to install a peice of equipment, when a representative who is factory trained and an expert in such things to stand around and do nothing?

The inefficiency alone of the UAW policies are enough to put an OEM out of business.

I'm sorry to anyone offended, but I'm a skilled machinist who is also highly trained and skilled in a very specialized industry, and I don't doubt a large number of the unskilled button pushers in UAW assembly lines probably make more money than I do, and still cry about it. I guess I have a tough time feeling sorry for that.

 

These union guys all complain about big corporations taking their manufacturing over sea's. Well, these unions are the main reason the jobs are being sent to china, malaysia, S. Korea...etc. The unions are asking for way too much, and if the companies don't fold in the hold the company hostage with the threat of a strike.... If they would back down and have a more reasonable requests for contracts... It would go along way toward keeping jobs in the US and keeping companies like GM from having to close plants and lay people off at times like this.

 

Unions suck! Philly just got over a strike for SEPTA transit because those crybabies were whining that they didn't want to have to start paying for benefits, costing workers 3-12 dollars a week!! And right now Newtown PA teachers just finished a strike because they were unhappy with wages. They make an average of 90,000 a year because that area is wealthy. But they love the children! Yeah, love using them as weapons and hostages and costing thousands of families thousands each in day care and lost time wages because of their greed. The union in GM needs to go, it's too much money to pay those guys what they're paid in salary and benefits. The only way they will survive is by being more competitve. Anyone who disagrees with me about the unions no longer having a place in society can go file a grievance!

 

Pretty harsh words, there. Unions pretty much built our country, and set the standards for the middle class. Without unions, there would be 2 classes. Rich and poor. Think about it. Unions set the precedent for middle class people's wages. Maybe if we sent the Kias and Hundais back where they came from, along with most of the other rice **** we've allowed in here, and did away with easy welfare and medicaid for people that aren't even U.S. citizens, things wouldn't be as fucked up as they are right now...Free trade is ruining this country--don't blame it all on the unions. How about putting the clamps on the big oil companies? Check their profit figures out...They're getting richer, while the middle class are paying all the freight, and the poor and immigrants (most) are getting it all for nothing and loving it. My 2 cents worth, and no, I'm not a union member... WJ