If it aint fair, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

 

and theyre free to organize too.

 

Just look at how much GM stuff is coming from Mexico. Most are working for GM down there for way less than our minimum wage. GM would have people assembling cars in our country for that if it weren't for the union organization... WJ

 

when the corp. mentality of "screw the employees and if you dont like it tough" goes away then so will unions.

its just as easy to say if you dont like unions dont work where they have them.


thing is you'll probably be working for less.

 

The problem is pretty obvious, if the cars cannot be built in an efficient, cost effective manner, and that includes both salary/benefits AND employee work ethic, well the obvious answer would be THE CARS WILL SIMPLY NO LONGER BE BUILT!!! Or you will see $75-90k tags on base model Vette's.

 

Tony, you have to remember, unions were formed in a day long before labor laws, minimum wage, OSHA, and other laws and regulating bodies of Government were in place to protect workers.

During the industrial revoloution in the late 1800's and early 1900's, many Americans went from rural, agricultural, mostly family owned work and moved to cities, working in the newly invented, designed, and built factories, mills, etc. The thought of employee rights were simply not concieved, never before in America had such working conditions even existed. Some regulation needed to be put into place. Along came unions, who leveraged the power of the working force itself to demand FAIR wages, breaks, hours, conditions, etc.

Well that was then and this is now. Now if employers don't provide breaks, overtime after 40 hours, reqiure workers to wear saftey shoes, glasses, ear protection, put interlocks on equipment, train employees for saftey, provide necessary saftey information for chemicals and equipment, provide clean air, etc, etc, etc, well they're simply not permitted to do business, end of story.

So where is the role of the union anymore? Unfortionately, many of the modern unions exist soley to extort rediculous amounts of cash from employers. They're completly self-serving, and in many ways, self destructive.

 

i see your point and understand it.



its just in my personal experience ive seen employers big and small abuse,use and toss employees aside like garbage and not think twice.


this is in all skill levels.


now yes.you have no choice but to move on but in an environment where youre represented these types of things are minimized.

sad fact is even today employers will try to break the rules if they know they can get away with it by using intimidation and harassment because they know people are afraid of being fired if they stand up to them.


its not as easy as getting a lawyer.try paying for one after youre fired.


mngt. abuse is a problem even today.unions help prevent that.


pay is another matter.once again an employer wont pay anymore than they have to.

yes,you can get another job but if unions were eliminated from that field youre in you can expect wages to drop significantly because theres nothing to prevent it from happening.


alot of times non union shops base their compensation on what union shops are to recruit people.



if unions were to go away you can expect the middle class whats left of it to go away too.at least a big portion of it.


corp. america has a big influence over what laws are passed and enforced.


why is it so bad for unions to protect their interest too?

ask a cop or athlete or electrician if theyd make what they do if it wasnt for a union.



as far as GM goes both sides need to work together.the fall of GM was because of greed on everyones part.

now both sides need to give.i think theyll work it out.


despite what alot of people think the UAW has agreed to plant closings in the past and has allowed automation to replace jobs.

it just sucks that people have a bad perception of GMs quality.


anyhow,i have no problem if you dont like unions but i wish people would respect people that are in them and people that would like to get organized because its their right.

 

go unions go! unions!

 

And GM is free to close or move jobs overseas... or free not to hire organized labor.

 

You mean they might only earn what there worth...

 

You said it much better than I did in all my (hands in the air) aggrivation.

 

BTW, in many cases.. cops, atheletes (as referenced above as GOOD EXAMPLES of unions) and some electricians are over paid. I can tell you this from personal experience. We ran cable through state and fed buildings in Albany (Capital of NY) at night...had to pay help..which were 18-20 years old with 1month to 2 years exp in the area of $50 per hour..it was okay for company, as it was bid that way..but thats my damn tax dollars. Alot of sitting around was "required", as the job didnt need hands on the whole time.

 

theres alot of non union people that i think are overpaid.



thats the way it is.



im just saying that even highly skilled and talented individuals are in unions because they know theyre better off.

 

but theyre not free to do that are they?

 

no,what they deserve by negoiation.

 

Lastly, I respect the right to organize (though I'm generally not a fan of it at all in these cases were talking about), but when the unions HELP bring companies that are not in the black..to their knees, it distresses me. 85k for some of these UAW workers is just to damn much for the skill level and schooling, especially considering benifits and paid time off...and worse.. the untouchable attitude some carry with it.

There are times when employees are abused and a Union would or does help.. but all is not perfect andf I cant come up with a solution for everyone... but I will say I rarely see unionized labor leading to a good buy for the end user....rather a service or product. If you dont like the job, move on, its an easy concept..and may be very difficult, and may mean you make less, and may create more class differential... but thats America,,, want more, work harder and smarter. Some will make their goals, some wont.
Its not just union, its State and Fed employees in some cases too.
Ehh, im just aggrivated at my taxes , and my next love, which is GM ..and I dont want to see what was once the best American company damaged by employee selfishness.
Sure unions let GM close plants..as you say... LET THEM... thats wrong.. The tail is wagging the dog. Look when they closed the f-body plants in Canada.. the union would not let them build camaros and birds for 5 years..part of the deal.
I beleive if Im the company and you want to work for me..know the terms, if I change the terms, adjust or move on. The company owes you nothing..yes, nothing. Be happy tou have a job.
Time for some of us Americans to visit some other (3rd world perhaps) countries.

 

Agreed

 

Thats the scary part... if they need permission to do either.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want the jobs overseas or in mexico.. but its a slippery slope. If unions dont negotiate down a ways..drastic measures will bring those jobs elsewehere..if anywhere.

 

thing is GM is going in the ******* because of poor leadership and awareness of what customers want.


they can cut everything including killing the union and it wont save them if they cant sell cars.


they need to start concentrating on what made them great.


a quality vehicle that people can depend on and good service after the purchase and not forget them when its time to buy again.

 

as long as they pay CEOs overseas wages then i have no problems with moving jobs overseas but that would be fair and corp. arent fair thats why unions will always exist.