.50 cals banned in NJ!
03-07-2007, 01:17 PM
#121
I haven't been remotely impressed with the average police officers knowledge or ability to handle a firearm safely or fire it accurately or properly, so I'll be damned if I am going to give up my gun rights and put these blundering fools in charge of my safety.
When I was in boot camp, we had a guy who was going into security forces. He scored a 7/50 at the range. That does include 10 shots with the gas mask on though.
I scored 47/50
03-07-2007, 01:36 PM
#123
11 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
I haven't been remotely impressed with the average police officers knowledge or ability to handle a firearm safely or fire it accurately or properly, so I'll be damned if I am going to give up my gun rights and put these blundering fools in charge of my safety.
Before the Army- I never fired a weapon EVER.
Qualified Expert on the M-16
After three different Academy firearms courses.. plus Action shooting competitions at the Pine Barrens on LI, NHRA PPC competitions at Camp Smith NY and in NJ.. I was the NYS Champion and the NJ Regional Champion for NHRA PPC.
In fact.. I can probably outshoot most people with my trusty-rusty S&W Model 10 4" duty gun out to 25 yards.
Now- If I used my $2,500+ Springfield Armory Trophy Cup "racegun" that was hand built by the same custom shop as Rob Leatham, then I would say that very few could touch me out to 50 yard- both in action shooting and PPC.
http://www.robleatham.com/
My targets were always a joy to score- one jagged hole with maybe 1-2 "strays" into the 10 ring.
Talk what you know.
Last edited by Mr. B; 03-07-2007 at 01:41 PM.
03-07-2007, 01:46 PM
#125
SSU'S Vice Mod
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazard Co. Maryland
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by obsolete346
After all the BS annologies I don't know what to think. I guess I should sell my .50 cal T/A? Cars and whatever else you can think of will never be a valid comparison because of the purpose of each is completely different.
I guess I will state this again. I BELIEVE IN THE OWNERSHIP OF FIREARMS, I ACTUALLY OWN SOME TOO.
I do however believe in reason.
We can go on and on about excess need, excess use, excess ect., but we're trying to reason something for, what? You keep challenging the people who oppose your view as to why they should own a .50 BMG rifle. Because, people like competition, people like competition @ 1000 + yards, because people like big things, that make big noise? What's it matter? If it doesn't directly effect you, why should you care? Seriously?
I do not think it's reasonable for private citizens to own weapons of mass destuction i.e. rockets, fully automatic weapons, grenades, claymores, Minuteman III's, RPG's, 40mm rounds etc.
Riddle me this batboy...where did I imply at all that people should be allowed to own "weapons of mass destruction."
That's great...just because I believe in the ownership of all SMALL ARMS (of which the only ones you listed are fully automatic weapons) means that I think I should be allowed to own RPBs, 20mm rockets, the controlls to the minuteman missle and claymore mines. Good call cheif. Talk about reading in the statements much? You should "stop assuming you know what people think." see below...I'm not even going to get into the whole class III weapons thing here...since most can't comprehend the facts of the arguments to begin with.
I also believe in reasonable gun control like backround checks and mandatory safety classes. I actually disagree with most handgun legislation in regaurds to carrying. You guys should stop assuming you know what people think.
I also don't think that any Tom Dick or Harry should be able to own whatever form of weapon they want. Just because the owner will probably not use it doesn't mean there is no chance of theft or other bad situation that could arise from the ownership of unreasonable weapons.
Great...so we're back to reasoning and "just because" there is an off hand chance that a criminal, a BAD GUY, who does BAD THINGS, might, steal things from you and use them in the commission of a crime. I suppose everyone should have garages because criminals steal cars and use them in the commission of bank roberies, hit and run accidents while they are fleeing from the po-po, and since it's statistically proven that vehicles in garages are harder to steal, it'll make the world a safer place. All in the name of a safety huh?
Switzerland will ya?
Zodiac also used a gun, not just a knife. That's as irrelevent as your point and his.
How did I know that someone would point to the fact that the Zodiac killer also used a firearm! Oh, gee, I don't know, just becaues I figured, I'd let someone try and point out the fact that serial killers (depending upon how sick, demented, twisted they are) MIGHT JUST NOT ONLY USE GUNS? No junior, it was very relivant, thanks for point it out.
I'd actually like stats on this cause I believe that.
There doesn't need to be a correlation and there will never be one. Cars are for transport guns are for killing. There is a difference in purpose. Stop getting hung up on the car anology it's moot. Not to mention there are already enforced traffic laws aimed at preventing accidents. People here usually bitch about that too.
Back to the whole transportation thing. Fine, great...that's awesome...I agree cars are for transportation, guns are for sport, so sports cars are for "sport" right, and thus, "unessecary" on the road, just as the .50 BMG rifles are "unessecary on the streets of America"?
Again, no one seemed to retort the whole, if we want to measure "excessively forceful firearms", there are pleanty of other loads out there that do beat the .50 BMG. Hell, even the Barrett .499 I believe is advertised with higher muzzel energy and velocity. How long before cali or jersey ban this one? Takers? I give it an over/under of 6 years.
I keep challenging people to provide a reasonable use for said weapons, but no one can point me to one either.
So...do you want me to go by what you think is reasonable, or what the US Supreme Court said is reasonable in Miller vs. US? Or should I subscribe to Brady's ideas on what's "reasonable."
Believe it or not...there are dedicated shooters to shooting the .50 BMG. They enjoy the precision of the parts, making their own rifles, manufacturing their own rounds, and then seeing just how good they can get at what they do. I suppose they aren't people on this board that don't modify their car, machine their own parts, build their own suspensions in the name of speed in a legal and lawful manner for off road use right?
Oh that's right...I forget, the whole...cars don't equal guns thing, but yet, race cars or sports cars are different and don't hurt anyone but maybe the driver...so it's a bad argument.
So you see no difference between a rocket and the situation you described? All of your examples take huge logical leaps in order to make your opposition sound wrong. You don't however answer the actual question. It would be similar to me saying that since guns kill people and nuclear weapons kill people we should be able to own those too. It's to far of a conclusion to draw. That's the same reason that the car analogy isn't valid. Your almost setting up a straw man arguement. Actually, not almost, you are.
Straw man argument...ya, um....ok dude. Again...where do I even REMOTELY imply rockets? Last I checked, they are NOT garunteed in the Constitution, and are not generally thought of as small arms in the Miller vs. US decision from the US Supreme Court. No where, no how have I advocated where citizens should use, bombs (which includes molitov cocktails, last I checked), rocket launchers, ect. Nuclear weapons,
that's just gravy...Yeah, if I want to build me a nuke in my back yard and glow...I'll let ya know.You're killing me here...are you that dense? Seriously?
Fine...dump the car annalogy, and compare sports cars (high speed vehicles that have no practicle purpose) to a .50 BMG that has "no practical purpose".
Jackass, that's my argument, always has been my argument, and that IS the simple argument of others. Since you started talking about "excess" we retort with "excess speed and horsepower". If you're going to legislate one...legislate the other.
Fun fact: Traffic deaths in the USA in 1999 was 41,611 (found here http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html).
Murder by firearms was 11,067 (65.2% of a total of 16,974). http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_99/99crime/99c2_03.pdf
That info is off of pages 1 and 6 of section two.
I know you're going to say "it's accidents vs. murder", but you wouldn't think that the murder by firearms would be 1/4 of the death in traffic accidents (in 1999)...
This is only after 5 minutes of digging.
Funny, I think both sides are guilty of that.
No one answered my question, should convicted felons be allowed to own hand guns?
FAIL!Convicted fellons, BY LAW, are not legally allowed to own ANY type of firearms.
03-07-2007, 01:46 PM
#126
Talk what you know.
I have seen some stupid cops with guns, and I have a few friends(cops) who are very good. One was on swat......still.......I trust myself more then someone I dont know
03-07-2007, 01:49 PM
#127
SSU'S Vice Mod
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazard Co. Maryland
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
Long Range Target Shooting, big game hunting, because if some retard COP can have one, a law-abiding civilian should be allowed to have one too. I haven't been remotely impressed with the average police officers knowledge or ability to handle a firearm safely or fire it accurately or properly, so I'll be damned if I am going to give up my gun rights and put these blundering fools in charge of my safety.
Agree fully, and actually...the Supreme court takes it one step further and agrees that Military Small arms (though highly regulated since the 1930s), fall under this perview as well.
03-07-2007, 01:52 PM
#128
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Iranndia
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. B
Hmmm...
Before the Army- I never fired a weapon EVER.
Qualified Expert on the M-16
After three different Academy firearms courses.. plus Action shooting competitions at the Pine Barrens on LI, NHRA PPC competitions at Camp Smith NY and in NJ.. I was the NYS Champion and the NJ Regional Champion for NHRA PPC.
In fact.. I can probably outshoot most people with my trusty-rusty S&W Model 10 4" duty gun out to 25 yards.
Now- If I used my $2,500+ Springfield Armory Trophy Cup "racegun" that was hand built by the same custom shop as Rob Leatham, then I would say that very few could touch me out to 50 yard- both in action shooting and PPC.
http://www.robleatham.com/
My targets were always a joy to score- one jagged hole with maybe 1-2 "strays" into the 10 ring.
Talk what you know.
Before the Army- I never fired a weapon EVER.
Qualified Expert on the M-16
After three different Academy firearms courses.. plus Action shooting competitions at the Pine Barrens on LI, NHRA PPC competitions at Camp Smith NY and in NJ.. I was the NYS Champion and the NJ Regional Champion for NHRA PPC.
In fact.. I can probably outshoot most people with my trusty-rusty S&W Model 10 4" duty gun out to 25 yards.
Now- If I used my $2,500+ Springfield Armory Trophy Cup "racegun" that was hand built by the same custom shop as Rob Leatham, then I would say that very few could touch me out to 50 yard- both in action shooting and PPC.
http://www.robleatham.com/
My targets were always a joy to score- one jagged hole with maybe 1-2 "strays" into the 10 ring.
Talk what you know.
03-07-2007, 01:56 PM
#130
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Iranndia
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sb427f-car
Agree fully, and actually...the Supreme court takes it one step further and agrees that Military Small arms (though highly regulated since the 1930s), fall under this perview as well.
03-07-2007, 02:00 PM
#131
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Watertown, NY
Posts: 8,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
yep NFA wasn't a ban, it was strict regulation and screening to 100% guarantee criminals don't get their hands on machine guns, grenades, destructive devices through any legal means. And in the 73 years since it's been enacted, only 1 crime has ever been committed with a legally owned NFA weapon, and it was a cop who shot his wife with a Thompson lol.
03-07-2007, 02:03 PM
#132
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
yep NFA wasn't a ban, it was strict regulation and screening to 100% guarantee criminals don't get their hands on machine guns, grenades, destructive devices through any legal means. And in the 73 years since it's been enacted, only 1 crime has ever been committed with a legally owned NFA weapon, and it was a cop who shot his wife with a Thompson lol.
03-07-2007, 02:10 PM
#133
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Iranndia
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brad8266
Thats so stupid. The criminals just go and get them illegally anyway, thats why they are criminals in the first place.
03-07-2007, 02:11 PM
#134
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Iranndia
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
Umm, people who legally buy a weapon at a gun shop don't usually commit murder. Check your statistics a little more for the people that do
03-07-2007, 02:35 PM
#135
SSU'S Vice Mod
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazard Co. Maryland
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Quick1998Z28
Practice makes perfect, and there is absolutely no comparison between military firearms training and law enforcement firearms training, military is FAR superior. I've read that a lot of departments simply require the officer to know which end the bullet comes out of and to be able to point it "down range". This was especially true of shotgun training which requires more, not less control because of the spread. I go to the range every other week (some times more), and with my AR I can repeatedly (hits on target were about 90%) off-hand, and even kneeling (no bench rest or prone position), hit a 6" steel gong target at 200 meters using an ACOG. I've also surprised myself hitting situational target multiple times with my Kimber .45 at 50 meters (without adjustable sights). I'm not about to give up my rights to a gun that I am far more skilled in using than some beat cop who gets to carry one in his squad car and pretend he's "cool" or something along those lines. I'm sure you being a former military (unless you are still active) would agree, but I'm also sure you know, that all those people who had firearms experience prior to joining the Army had an upperhand in training, and selection for marksmanship. You don't need and shouldn't have to join the military to become proficient with a firearm (any firearm), thats what the second amendment is also about.
Even JFK knew that...
President John F. Kennedy knew the value of marksmanship training: "All of us, I am sure, 10 years ago thought that the need for the man with the rifle would be passing away from the scene in the 1960s. And it is true that there are a good many Americans tonight who are stationed underground in a hardened silo whose duty is to watch some tables and some dials and a button. "But the very size and magnitude of these new great weapons have placed a new emphasis upon what we call rather strangely conventional war, and they have made it even more mandatory that we keep the man with the rifle." (Address given at the Marine Corp Barracks, Washington, D.C., July 12, 1962)
03-07-2007, 02:45 PM
#137
SSU'S Vice Mod
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazard Co. Maryland
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
Oh, the 20's and 30's lol. That's real weak man. You can do better than information from 80 freaking years ago.
03-07-2007, 02:54 PM
#138
SSU'S Vice Mod
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hazard Co. Maryland
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh...just remembered that someone slammed the "republicans" for taking away freedoms with "illegal wire taps" and all that other "evil patriot act stuff."
Do yourself a favor, and eschelon, whoever brought it up. That kind of intel has been going on for a VERY long time.
Do yourself a favor, and
eschelon, whoever brought it up. That kind of intel has been going on for a VERY long time.
03-07-2007, 03:01 PM
#139
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bensalem, Pa, now montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i would love to get a gun, but its so hard to get one up here and no handguns pretty much. Tons of good open area up here to go shooting. Its also not a right up here to own guns.
03-07-2007, 03:21 PM
#140
Originally Posted by sb427f-car
Liberal = socialist...
It's an oxymoron.
It's an oxymoron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist
totally diffrent thinking... i just get annoyed by it, because one side always accuses the other of being a "no good damn liberal"... :lmao: