deadcities

iTrader: (4)

only three hit him, the 4th passed through his clothing.

My point was that any caliber will kill, and that the often cited principle of "Stopping Power", with regard to a pistol is an overrated concept that borders on urban myth.

I'm curious what everyone here thinks constitutes "knockdown power" when it comes to a pistol round.

I'd look into the Bersa Thunder .380. It's a knock-off of the Walther PPK. I've had one. Great quality, never jams, cheaply priced, and will fit into your pocket. Sounds like it might be a viable option for what you're looking for.

kail

iTrader: (2)

accuracy IS important, however most self defense situations involving a gun take place inside 30 feet, the vast majority hapening within 15. its really hard to miss within 15 feet. as for your put down force, i would really recommend a .357, personally. then again, their pretty big, so concealability would suffer.

for me the most important feature is reliability, with most of the small 'concealable' weapons, you really do need to stick to a name brand you can trust. my buddy picked up one of the small off brand 9mm "hold out" pistols against my advice and inside of 200 rounds he jammed it 7 times. odds are pretty good when theres a coked up "bad guy" comin at you, you dont wanna worry about something like that...

my .02.

kail

iTrader: (2)

also, if you are worried about stopping power. i would recommend aiming for a knee...

you could hit the bastard with a 22 and hed still go down in a pile, believe that. coked up, high on pcp, whatever...

plus you get the bonus points when the police show up for aiming low. last thing you want to do is kill him, its paper work, and paper work, and paper work.

LT1-DAN

When the time comes for me to pull my gun, I will not be thinking of the least amount of bodily injury that I can inflict. I will aim to KILL!!!! I am not worried about paper work. The best place to aim is at the torso, so you will have a less chance of stray bullets.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

imo rbcd rounds are the only ones to carry for personal protection. they are flat out bad ***. and believe it or not they are more accurate then a standard target round. i also love my smith and wesson m and p. fits like a glove with 3 grips to choose from and a very nice peice.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

thats wrong. the last thing u want to do is wound him. if u pull the gun pull it to kill someone. if u wound him then u have 2 sides of a story and guess what-hes not going to say he was trying to rob or attack u. dont pull a gun unless u plan to do so with leathal force. thats how u get yourself in trouble.

1fastls1ss

iTrader: (7)

100% agree with you DAN, your firearm is a means to protect your life when it is threatened by an enemy, "bad guy", ect... If someone forces me to pull my gun out I'll assure you they won't be able to answer any ?'s to the police because they will not be alive. When you're forced to pull out your gun, YOU SHOOT TO KILL!

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Last couple of posts are really good. I remember my dad used to sit in a lot of grand jury hearings. He would tell me to NEVER use a caliber like a 44. mag or .45 ACP for personal defense.

He always said that grand jury's are very hard on those type cases, but, if you kill someone with a small caliber weapon, it will sway a jury more in your favor than blowing the perpetrators head of is shoulders ... showing intent to kill and not to simply defend yourself without the intent to kill.

I'll be shooting center mass and unloading 11 rounds, so, as it was stated, killing the perpetrator eliminates them testifying against you. My dad always indicated if the tht threat was so great your life is in danger, always shoot to kill.

This brought back a lot of memories of my dad ... who is now deceased. He also said often that the most taunting thing to deal with in life is someone's ghost and to never kill anyone unless it was a matter of survival. However, it was a Browning .25 auto which saved his life twice ... that I know of.

He never saw a day of jailtime either time ... ruled as self-defensive.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

i always carry my .40. imo its the best all around round for self defense. its not so big where u can take down a rhino but you are almost guaranteed that they are going down and not getting back up. im actually likely going to get my exact gun in the sub compact also just for a little more concealability. my full size can get bulky at times. and like your dad said if the threat was so great where u felt u were unable to defend urself by standard means then pull that weapon with the intent of being the only person to walk away from the encounter. and my instructor at class even said UNLOAD the weapon as quickly and accurately as possible. but dont walk up to them after they fall and pop them in the head for good measure either.

kail

iTrader: (2)

i believe my statement was a little misconstrued, obviously, a gun is a lethal weapon and should be treated as such, dont pull unless youll use it, dont use it unless your prepared to kill. i simply meant unloading on him, aiming for the head, obviously overaggressive measures will land you in jail just as sure as if you were the robber/assailant/actual "bad guy" i meant it more as a be prepared for the "then what" afterward. its not like click bang dead, ok, theyll pick up the body, ill go home.
that bieng said, it should be used ONLY as a last resort. shooting eleven, center mass is obviously not the best course of action. at that point it stops being self defense pretty quickly. its a prepared to kill situation, not going out of your way to do so. he got the point at 5 jeb trust me...

this isnt meant as an attack on anyone, although it probably will be construed as one. just putting in the disclaimer
some people just shouldnt carry guns period. not saying anyone here. if your prepared to get carry, you have to know when NOT to pull it more then when to pull it...its an only if your life is threatened situation, which some people forget.
the last thing i want to do is pull it, but if it ever gets to that situation, i wont hesitate to do so.

as for ls2 bait ill agree the .40 is a solid self defense piece.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

^^^ from everyone i have talked to shoot them as many times as u can until the threat has been eliminated. i.e. like said before dont walk up and pop one in the head for good measure but if u can get 11 off in the torso before he goes down do it.

LT1-DAN

You are so way off base. According to Florida law, a person can use deadly force in any kidnapping, carjacking, home invasion, robbery, home robbery, as well as helping the victim of one of these crimes in progress. It does not have to be a "ONLY IF YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED SITUATION" as you stated. There are no laws on the books that say where on the body you can and cannot shoot your attacker. If you are a victim of one of these crimes, you have the right to use deadly force period!! The torso is the best place to aim, because it is the largest section of the body, so your chance of missing your target is reduced. The last thing you want is to aim for the knees as you have stated, and miss your target and have a stray bullet hit some innocent person in the backround. Then you will have major problems ahead.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

I agree with some of what you're saying, however, I think you misconstrued my statement, as well. I was attempting to convey that while my dad used a small caliber .25 auto (it only held 6 rounds), it would be much better to unload the magazine to stop soemone than to aim at their head and blow their brains out the back of their cranium.

Since I have ppretty much decided on a .32 .cal auto with Hydra-shok's, I would shoot until the victim went down. If that took all 7 rounds, then so be it. With .32 hydra-shok's, I'm willing to bet the first couple of rounds and the threat would be down, however, there's gonna' be more than one round fired before they can hit the ground ... one on their way down ... to ensure they stay down.

I'm sold on the NAA .32 ACP Guardian ... last call for a better carry weapon recommendation ... anyone got anymore recomendations?

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

To those suggesting to hit different parts of the body think of this. Next time you are at the range....go for some head shots on a silhoette target from about 10 yards, then 15 yards. Then, go for center mass. Tell me which one you hit more . Now....add to the fact that the bad guy will be moving, you will be nervous as ****, and you won't have the luxury of lining up your sights before shooting.....it will be simply a point and shoot scenario. Only time I use my sights are in qualifing. When I'm out shooting on my own and try to just point and shoot as much as possible to get the best muscle memory for when I have to use my gun.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

thats a good point. at the range we put it out at 20yds then put the gun on the counter. someone will push the button and make the silouhette start to move in as then u have to pull the gun and fire as many as possible into it before it gets to you. not all places let u do this as it can be dangerous if someone doesnt pay attention but it makes u think a little harder when u fire 10 shots and there is only 5 in the paper the first couple times u do it.

Shepp1691

iTrader: (8)

I have always carried a Glock 27 with Speer Hollow Point Gold Dots. Not sure if you can get it where you are. A .40 cal will have plenty of stopping power and it holds 9 rounds which is more than a lot of your compacts.

Injected1

iTrader: (4)

As far as Guns go, check out KAHR arms...good gun, same construction as the glock, but it has a safety. (That is my major thing against a glock as a CCW, is the lack of safety).

As far as shooting to kill, shooting to wound, and all that. I am a big fan of point and start squeezing. Keep Squeezing until it clicks a couple of times. 2-3 or 5 shots shows you were in control and can make a case that you intended to kill. 11 shots makes the case you were scared for your life and in a purely fight or flight or situation.

86 IROC

iTrader: (14)

+1 That is the very gun I purchased for carry. I bought it on the reccomendation of a good friend that has one for his carry weapon.

deadcities

iTrader: (4)

There's a lot of armchairing and theorizing here when it comes to using your weapon. I HIGHLY recommend you all procure a copy of "Florida Firearms -- Law, Use, and Ownership" by Jon Gutmacher.
He's an Orlando area criminal defense attorney, who is pretty much THE authority on Florida gun and defense laws.
It's a really well written book, with plain english explanations of Florida's laws. Every gun owner in Florida should have a copy.

RIDINFILTHY

iTrader: (10)

i got a .380 and absolutely dont carry it on me, i just cant fathem going to prison for killing someone so i dont carry one or worry about getting shot!! just my 2 cents