One SMALL turbo and one BIG turbo, staggered on a TT LSX setup??
01-06-2009, 08:07 PM
#1
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One SMALL turbo and one BIG turbo, staggered on a TT LSX setup?? Is it possible on our lsx motors to run a small turbo that spools up fast, and a large turbo for top end... staggering these 2 turbos to form a possible setup? The problem i see is inconsistant back pressure on the left and right bank between the 2 turbos? Any thoughts? Could one run a cross over pipe from one header to the other the connects UPSTREAM of the turbos, so that the header pressures are able to equalize prior to ever hitting a turbo?
Obviously the reason for this application is to have no turbo lag, but still have top end power. Let me know if its been done, thanks.
Obviously the reason for this application is to have no turbo lag, but still have top end power. Let me know if its been done, thanks.
01-06-2009, 08:15 PM
#2
That's what BIG CUBES are for lol! But seriously, what you're talking about is a sequential TT system but you can't run a small turbo on one bank and a big one on the other. You have to actually flow both banks through the small one which then goes through the larger one. I'll let others expand on this more if they care to. Otherwise, I recommend you do a search on sequential turbocharging.
01-06-2009, 11:24 PM
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in all honesty, in the past 3 hours of research, i found something very interesting that im going to try on my supercharged car, and if it works, i will probably never use a turbo.
A bit off topic, but i found a guy who put a second throttle body on the INTAKE side of the SC. This both SILENCES the SC, and also relieves most of the stress on the sc, for it is now spinning in vacume... i found it very intersting, and if i can silence my f1r, ill be more than confident i can silence any SC out there.
The new whipple SC that sits off to the side of the motor so it can still be intercooled, and produces 1000 rwhp at 5000 rpm and 1000 rwt at just above idle... there is no blower out there of any kind that can compete... and if i can shut the damn thing up from making its hideous noises while cruising in vacume, and have it suck itself into vacume while just cruising around by adding the second tb... you can have your laggy, hot air pumping turbos
A bit off topic, but i found a guy who put a second throttle body on the INTAKE side of the SC. This both SILENCES the SC, and also relieves most of the stress on the sc, for it is now spinning in vacume... i found it very intersting, and if i can silence my f1r, ill be more than confident i can silence any SC out there.
The new whipple SC that sits off to the side of the motor so it can still be intercooled, and produces 1000 rwhp at 5000 rpm and 1000 rwt at just above idle... there is no blower out there of any kind that can compete... and if i can shut the damn thing up from making its hideous noises while cruising in vacume, and have it suck itself into vacume while just cruising around by adding the second tb... you can have your laggy, hot air pumping turbos
Last edited by irun4cops; 01-06-2009 at 11:30 PM.
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01-07-2009, 12:18 AM
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http://www.notasponsor.com
Their 1000hp whipple setup... if you go to the "tech & faq" section, it mentions the double throttle body and what it does. They also have dynos of their cars.... basically, power isnt the problem, its drivetrain snapping.
Their 1000hp whipple setup... if you go to the "tech & faq" section, it mentions the double throttle body and what it does. They also have dynos of their cars.... basically, power isnt the problem, its drivetrain snapping.
Last edited by frcefed98; 01-07-2009 at 06:52 PM.
01-07-2009, 12:55 AM
#9
the phrase keep it simple and stupid comes to mind....you just have to look around at all the badass cars on here making INSANE power (700+hp) with a "baby" stock 75mm throttle body, even stock intake, heads and cam in some cases. The beauty of LS1's are that they work well all around with one TB, so dont fix it if it aint broken is what im trying to say. If you do double throttle bodies or w/e please post up as you are probably the only guy ever to do that on this website...who knows maybe you'll gain 100 hp or 2 
01-07-2009, 02:26 AM
#11
there are other ways to minime lag. new turbos are a million times better than the older stuff. and its nice to see new stuff, like BW's ETT, coming in.
also with modern ECUs the control you have over the engine is much better. if you had the time you could get the map perfect for every pound of boost and that in its self would help spool!
Also there are other things you can add on. you could use N2O to help spool. its tried and tested and works great. a small say 50bhp shot for a faction of a second would be enough to totlay kill and lag between shifts. also you cna help it to spool the turbo of the line.
another idea is anti-lag! would love to see it used hardcore on a LS engine! seen it one 2.0ltr rally cars and its unreal! i rember the old WRC escort cosworths, they sounded like machine guns coming into corners. this dose reduce turbo life span however.
specinf the turbo(s) right also makes the biggest difference. not point puting 2 turbo cappable of 1000bhp each if you only want 800bhp! also people are getting morwe in tune with the setups and what else may reduce/restrict the trubos. more and more people are monitoring boost, backpresure (at verious points), EGTs, etc. this mean you can maximise a smaller trubo setup and extract more power from it.
with all that said, it would be cool! i have often thought of it myself. would be nice to have a small 61mm turbo up front leading into a T6 at the rear. be intresting to see the graph.
also people are talking about useing twin scroll trubo housings and routing all the exhaust through one side. once boost in reached a wastegate starts to bypass the exhaust into the other side of the hosuing. this shouild in teriory give yo very fast boost responce with little impact to the top end performance. i have also seen a small plate that fit bettwen the trubo and the manfiold flange with a butterfly over one of the housings (twin scrool housings must be used) that doase the same thing.
there are some many options these days. find one you like, do lots of research, have clear goals (saves doing things twice) and be open minded. oh and keep up posted!
Chris.
also with modern ECUs the control you have over the engine is much better. if you had the time you could get the map perfect for every pound of boost and that in its self would help spool!
Also there are other things you can add on. you could use N2O to help spool. its tried and tested and works great. a small say 50bhp shot for a faction of a second would be enough to totlay kill and lag between shifts. also you cna help it to spool the turbo of the line.
another idea is anti-lag! would love to see it used hardcore on a LS engine!
seen it one 2.0ltr rally cars and its unreal! i rember the old WRC escort cosworths, they sounded like machine guns coming into corners. this dose reduce turbo life span however.specinf the turbo(s) right also makes the biggest difference. not point puting 2 turbo cappable of 1000bhp each if you only want 800bhp! also people are getting morwe in tune with the setups and what else may reduce/restrict the trubos. more and more people are monitoring boost, backpresure (at verious points), EGTs, etc. this mean you can maximise a smaller trubo setup and extract more power from it.
with all that said, it would be cool! i have often thought of it myself. would be nice to have a small 61mm turbo up front leading into a T6 at the rear. be intresting to see the graph.
also people are talking about useing twin scroll trubo housings and routing all the exhaust through one side. once boost in reached a wastegate starts to bypass the exhaust into the other side of the hosuing. this shouild in teriory give yo very fast boost responce with little impact to the top end performance. i have also seen a small plate that fit bettwen the trubo and the manfiold flange with a butterfly over one of the housings (twin scrool housings must be used) that doase the same thing.
there are some many options these days. find one you like, do lots of research, have clear goals (saves doing things twice) and be open minded. oh and keep up posted!
Chris.
01-07-2009, 07:07 AM
#12
I thought the majority of the noises coming from a SC were from the gears not the actual air moving...no?
Also wouldn't restricting the inlet on the SC actually put a lot of stress/heat in it?
Back on topic, I am all for you trying something different but have you ever been in a turbo Lsx that was front mount, properly sized and tuned? I am running stock cubes (stock engine minus cam and Ls6 intake) and a 76mm turbo and get full boost in first gear by 2800rpms. I think the lag issue has been blown out of proportion. I am definitely not sitting around waiting for the boost to come in.
Also wouldn't restricting the inlet on the SC actually put a lot of stress/heat in it?
Back on topic, I am all for you trying something different but have you ever been in a turbo Lsx that was front mount, properly sized and tuned? I am running stock cubes (stock engine minus cam and Ls6 intake) and a 76mm turbo and get full boost in first gear by 2800rpms. I think the lag issue has been blown out of proportion. I am definitely not sitting around waiting for the boost to come in.
