Somebody09

Somewhere I found an article where nitrous nozzle placement was discussed in turbo application. It gave four places: before the impeller, after the impeller but before the intercooler, after the intercooler but before the throttle body, and direct port. Each had its advantages and disadvantages.

I'd like to apply this thinking to water/meth injection. Most (if not all) set ups I've found on this site have the nozzle placed after the intercooler and before the throttle body. Is there a problem with placing it before the intercooler, perhaps right after the discharge? My hope is to hide my nozzle from plain view and give the fluid more than enough time to vaporize. My concern is possible deterioration of the intercooler...

Thoughts?

Adam Connell

Yeah you will get puddling in the intercooler, and that is not only a fire hazard, but it will destroy your IC over time. Methanol and aluminum just about hate each other. You will get FULL vaporization post IC as long as you are using a quality kit with good nozzles and a good pump. Also dont waste your time using a mix... 100% methanol is all you need. If you want to toy with water injection, investigate spraying the water injection pre-turbo... I wont go into the advantages, but basically it makes your turbo more efficient. We are talking a VERY small amount of water, sprayed at extreme pressure, small enough that the water particles come out are micron sized.

More of a pain than I want to deal with though... but some are claiming that they are seeing close to ambient outlet temps. Technology just isnt quite there yet, so it's not something I want to risk killing a turbo over... water that isnt small enough and 100XXX rpms in the turbo can lead to self destruction quick! Expect more info on this in the coming years though... it's good stuff.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

How cold is methane when it comes out of the spray nozzles?

How long does one fill last?

elias_799

iTrader: (8)

^^^^^

elias_799

iTrader: (8)

^^^ depends how you drive. most people set it so it only sprays at certain boost level

code4

iTrader: (30)

it's methanol (alcohol) dip you're finger in it then hold in the air. you can feel it's cooling effect by evaporation.

I start my spray at 5 pounds of boost & it is spraying 100 percent by 15 pounds of boost with the largest nozzle that came with my kit.

2 quarts will last me maybe 4 or 5 1/4 mile runs.

deuce_454

the big reason to spray after the IC is that the Meth absorbs heat by evaporation, and vapour takes up space... so the colder the charge is (after the IC compared to before) when you spray the less evaporation takes place, and the more oxygen is present to fuel combustion in any fixed volume (the cylinder)

the benefits of methanol or even better methanol/water (50/50) injection is twofold.. one is to cool the charge, which is a minor benefit, compared to methanol and waters detonation inhibiting characteristics, the methanol adds fuel and octane (slows combustion) and the presence os waterdroplets in the air fuel mix, further slows the combustion speed down so you wont get the rapid inctease in cylinderpressure before top dead center (detonation or ping)

so spray after the IC if you have one, that way you are taking full advantage of teh intercoolers heatexchanging, and not adding water and methanol vapour (they only do good as droplets) to the mix...

spraying before the compressor wheel is the poor mans approach as it is self regulation and requires no pump.. you simply plumb the intake to the water/meth tank and let it be pressurized by oost, that will siphoon the water/meth to a simple low press nozzle before the compressor wheel, and the drops/stream will be atomized when hitting the spinning compressorwheel.... it kills the compressorwheel over time and has teh aforementioned drawbacks...

rx_treme

iTrader: (9)

I run 100% meth and have the nozzle tapped into the outlet end tank of the intercooler so it has maximum time to vaporize before IAT sensor and engine.
It turns on at 10-11 psi so I only use it for high boost (non progressive controller).
I really only use mine for cooling the intake charge and a safety margin for when its 115 here in the summer.
I have a 1 Gallon tank and it really lasts a LONG time since i use it only after 10psi and its a small nozzle (5gph)

I've also been told not to run it pre intercooler, however it has not damaged my aluminum IC piping or TB yet.

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

Remember that the intercooler is made out of aluminum. Methanol and aluminum do not mix as methanol is very corrosive to aluminum. Spray afterwards.

Somebody09

Thanks for all your replies. Depending on how brave I become, I might just try spraying a mix before the compressor and ditching the intercooler... I've found a very interesting read that makes me want to try: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267

I've not read the entire thing yet, but one thing that I wonder is this: If I can't get a nozzle to spray finely enough, could I use a wet nitrous jet and spray water & nitrous? Of course, that could add more problems.

deuce_454

if you add nitrous, you have to add more fuel, as you are adding oxygen.... and a notroud bottle will run out within minutes if you spray continously

dman

iTrader: (5)

I've run a meth kit on my car now for over a year. anytime i'm over 5psi it's spraying so you can bet i go thru alot of meth. Upon removing the Aluminum intercooler tubing (where the nozzle is mounted) and my Aluminum intake manifold there are NO signs of any wear, corrosion or oxidation, NONE! forget the mix, use straight methanol. And use a high pressure pump 100+psi regardless of where you plan on spraying before or after the turbo, you don't want a stream of anything flowing thru the turbo. A fine mist from an M-5 nozzle directly into the turbo inlet will dramatically drop outlet temps and will for the most part be completely evaporated before it ever hits the intercooler. Thats why you also have an M-10 nozzle right before the TB to get that last bit of cooling and some extra octane.

Avengeance

iTrader: (4)

I find it hard to believe that any methanol being introduced to boost before a IC will cause any kind of corrosion... I dont see methanol spray/vapor "hanging out" long enough to cause a problem. The stuff evaporates extremely quick without having any kind of air flow to it.

I may be wrong... just my opinion.

BoostnTBSS

iTrader: (-1)

well if you spray pre turbo just take the ic out... if you do it right you will get sub 40 deg iat.... spray too much and it freeze the TB on long trips .....

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

It is a well proven fact that long term exposure to methanol, aluminum will corrode.

dman

iTrader: (5)

yes, it is a fact. the other side of that coin is how much exposure leads to how much corrosion? it may take 10 years of constant contact to begin to make an impact. And since nobody drives around with the meth constantly flowing, i don't see much of a problem.

I wouldn't "remove" an existing intercooler, but if you don't have one yet then go with the meth first.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

iTrader: (17)

One day in the future, I am going to tee into the alky line and put a #10 nozzle on the inlet to my Vortech. I have been told that it will increase boost. by a couple of pounds. I am not concerned about puddling in my intercooler because I will be spraying so little and infrequently (only under boost) and this stuff evaporates so quickly. I have no corrosion concerns.

dman

iTrader: (5)

blownbluez06 - i would love to see it done on a blower car. i have heard it increases boost but i'm afraid my wastegates will negate the gain as it's their job to control boost to a preset level.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

iTrader: (17)

Finishing up putting the new Textralia Exo-triple. After break in, I will start playing with these little fun things. I have HPtuners Pro and log everything, so we'll get to see the results in a legitimate way. It will be a while, but I will be doing it and post up!

dman

iTrader: (5)

i would imagine the temp decrease will be huge as the compressor housing is where all the heat gets generated. Imagine 70* boost before it even hits the intercooler