837 RWHP 944 TQ 402ci F-Body APS Base Kit
03-05-2009, 11:01 AM
#83
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The LQ9 were just ported and we put yella terra rockers on it. Callies crank and rods. Not sure about the dish size I know they were Diamond turbo pistons
03-05-2009, 11:29 AM
#84
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right on, tranny is in im lacking a few other things...ive just been soo busy ill be outta town pretty much until the end of March, u going to pinks again? btw congrats on the #'s! car is def sick!
03-05-2009, 04:17 PM
#87
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will see, turbos are crapping out on me
but i gota go get a run in with sombody before i put the bigger snails
, new mickeys hook up great I will be there as long as the wind wont be blowing like usuall.
03-05-2009, 04:34 PM
#89
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 6,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice car, so are you on the bigger turbos or stockers still? I'd beef up the valvesprings as Jim from Speed Inc suggested, hopefully you aren't blowing boost out of the exhaust valves that would suck! haha
My dream for my old SOM SS was to make similar power as you except on my forged 346. I ran outta $$$ and had to sell her.
I'm into bikes so that helps me get by for now. Need to find a rich gal so I don't have to spend my own money to do another nice build lol.
My dream for my old SOM SS was to make similar power as you except on my forged 346. I ran outta $$$ and had to sell her.
I'm into bikes so that helps me get by for now. Need to find a rich gal so I don't have to spend my own money to do another nice build lol.
03-06-2009, 06:32 AM
#90
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice car, so are you on the bigger turbos or stockers still? I'd beef up the valvesprings as Jim from Speed Inc suggested, hopefully you aren't blowing boost out of the exhaust valves that would suck! haha
My dream for my old SOM SS was to make similar power as you except on my forged 346. I ran outta $$$ and had to sell her.
I'm into bikes so that helps me get by for now. Need to find a rich gal so I don't have to spend my own money to do another nice build lol.
My dream for my old SOM SS was to make similar power as you except on my forged 346. I ran outta $$$ and had to sell her.
I'm into bikes so that helps me get by for now. Need to find a rich gal so I don't have to spend my own money to do another nice build lol.
I want more power
Yup it takes a lot one thing leads to another and there you are LOL. I was into bikes for a while always had cars got outa bikes when my cars became faster then my bikes. 
03-06-2009, 10:21 AM
#92
Hmm so there is lots of smoke now from both turbos? So the boost is dropping way down too now? Hard to believe the turbos are dead from just going to 17psi a few times but guess anything is possible. Normally oil out the turbos is not the turbos fault but other things. Excessive crankcase pressure,blocked oil returns, excessive oil pressure in some turbos,overfilled oilpan,colllapsing inlets ,blown engine to name a few. Also not sure how quick overspinning can kill a turbo..not that much experience with dead turbos personally.
And you have done stuff to stop the collapsing inlet problem,you have a new built engine,newly installed setup so likely not blocked oil returns. Not sure how you did the pcv setup you said you did it different from aps. Heck bet even doing it like aps and putting that check valve in backwards could do it. And mentioned its possible to leave the shipping plug in the aps oil return hole and put the fitting right over it. I almost made that error and doublechecked after install to be sure the drain plastic shipping plug was out.
Anyway curious if its the turbos especially both turbos what the hell is going on with APS and there f body turbos? Seen almost nobody with same turbos complaining on the c5 or gto forums. Even asked the question directly there. Maybe they bought some chinese knockoffs by accident or to cut corners. The kit seems to be very high quality and 20g mit are usually pretty much bulletproof. I have experience with mits turbos on my many many dsms. Usually very reliable even abused and overspun,etc. Seen many go over 100,000 miles no problem. Some almost double that.Not much in a turbo. Maybe they are not being balanced properly that is one possible explanation.
I have bought new centers off ebay, japanese built and balanced hopefully properly ,will see how those work out and if they don't likely will order some from LG.
I got an outright dud. It leaked massive amounts of coolant into the oil ,figure center has internal crack. Could have lost new engine but caught it within first few minutes of initial startup. Hopefully no critical damage done to engine. Not sure if Aps will replace the dud it was after a year of gettting the kit but didn't install it waiting on new 408.
Still wonder if can replace those centers by just undoing the v bands and not having to remove the kmember and everything.
From throwing in some calculations into this one site that found it does seem that these turbos being only rated at 50lb/min and that might be optimistic are going to fall short at higher rpm and boost on a 402 or 408. Seems something around 65 pounds a minute would be much better like the upgraded turbos are rated for. For a person only wanting to go to say 6000 and keep the boost down to likely 12 maybe 15psi the standards might be ok on a bigger than stock cube engine. Course bigger engine should take less boost to hit max airflow and lower rpm. I figured I would be pushing the standards on my built 408 to only 15psi or so compared to say a 346 but might need to go to 7000 to hit a goal mph thru the traps without going to overdrive.I plan on identical rearend to OneMean01.Identical gearing as well.
And you have done stuff to stop the collapsing inlet problem,you have a new built engine,newly installed setup so likely not blocked oil returns. Not sure how you did the pcv setup you said you did it different from aps. Heck bet even doing it like aps and putting that check valve in backwards could do it. And mentioned its possible to leave the shipping plug in the aps oil return hole and put the fitting right over it. I almost made that error and doublechecked after install to be sure the drain plastic shipping plug was out.
Anyway curious if its the turbos especially both turbos what the hell is going on with APS and there f body turbos? Seen almost nobody with same turbos complaining on the c5 or gto forums. Even asked the question directly there. Maybe they bought some chinese knockoffs by accident or to cut corners. The kit seems to be very high quality and 20g mit are usually pretty much bulletproof. I have experience with mits turbos on my many many dsms. Usually very reliable even abused and overspun,etc. Seen many go over 100,000 miles no problem. Some almost double that.Not much in a turbo. Maybe they are not being balanced properly that is one possible explanation.
I have bought new centers off ebay, japanese built and balanced hopefully properly ,will see how those work out and if they don't likely will order some from LG.
I got an outright dud. It leaked massive amounts of coolant into the oil ,figure center has internal crack. Could have lost new engine but caught it within first few minutes of initial startup. Hopefully no critical damage done to engine. Not sure if Aps will replace the dud it was after a year of gettting the kit but didn't install it waiting on new 408.
Still wonder if can replace those centers by just undoing the v bands and not having to remove the kmember and everything.
From throwing in some calculations into this one site that found it does seem that these turbos being only rated at 50lb/min and that might be optimistic are going to fall short at higher rpm and boost on a 402 or 408. Seems something around 65 pounds a minute would be much better like the upgraded turbos are rated for. For a person only wanting to go to say 6000 and keep the boost down to likely 12 maybe 15psi the standards might be ok on a bigger than stock cube engine. Course bigger engine should take less boost to hit max airflow and lower rpm. I figured I would be pushing the standards on my built 408 to only 15psi or so compared to say a 346 but might need to go to 7000 to hit a goal mph thru the traps without going to overdrive.I plan on identical rearend to OneMean01.Identical gearing as well.
03-06-2009, 11:16 AM
#93
This is some info off Forced performance site and they know a thing or two about turbos! Lg is getting his replacements from them.
"blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow. "
"blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow. "
03-06-2009, 02:40 PM
#94
Sorry about that last thread. I didn't mean to imply that Forced peformance is selling the turbos directly to us but that LG is doing the r and d on this and handling the upgrades for us. And that Forced Performance has excellent rep as does LG.
I will be more than likely getting a set of upgraded turbos from LG in the possibly near future. I was simply browsing the FP site looking at new turbo for my 91 talon and came across this little explanation of turbos and oil blowing and thought it might be a possibly explanation for some of the aps problems. I had a few instances of excessive crankcase pressure from bad pcv and blocked vent hose on my old 92 talon and thought new turbo or engine was blown but once fixed the pressure problem it was just fine.
I have not seen any oil blowing yet on my aps build but only put 500 or so miles on the car before putting it away and those 500 were low boost up to 7.5psi max .
I will be more than likely getting a set of upgraded turbos from LG in the possibly near future. I was simply browsing the FP site looking at new turbo for my 91 talon and came across this little explanation of turbos and oil blowing and thought it might be a possibly explanation for some of the aps problems. I had a few instances of excessive crankcase pressure from bad pcv and blocked vent hose on my old 92 talon and thought new turbo or engine was blown but once fixed the pressure problem it was just fine.
I have not seen any oil blowing yet on my aps build but only put 500 or so miles on the car before putting it away and those 500 were low boost up to 7.5psi max .
