for all you high hp guys
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FormerVendor
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From: Virginia Beach,Virginia
Do you still dowel the main caps with the support system? Is that included in the price? When ever I get ready to put the engine together for my 93 I will more than likely be making a road trip to visist you guys.
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Teching In
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From: Australia
http://www.dmperformance.org/
they do a fully engineered engine girdle....
whats the diff with yours?
they do a fully engineered engine girdle....
whats the diff with yours?
Thread Starter
FormerVendor
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From: Virginia Beach,Virginia
http://www.dmperformance.org/
they do a fully engineered engine girdle....
whats the diff with yours?
they do a fully engineered engine girdle....
whats the diff with yours?
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Teching In
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Australia
fair comment, the only reason i asked is i was put onto that website for a girdle.... but then i saw yours? so was curious, i was about to buy the other one...
again what do u call HIGH HP?
again what do u call HIGH HP?
I originally designed the support for the lsx block,they have the caps doweled already,but the stock blocks should be doweled-I'll do this for an extra $100.00 considering it's only a little bit more machine time.
alot-my support has a mechanical lock into each cap as well as into the oil pan rails of the block,this ensures absolutely no movement in the main caps,whereas the others rely on friction to hold the caps in place-it doesn't work on the bottom-why would it work on the top?
alot-my support has a mechanical lock into each cap as well as into the oil pan rails of the block,this ensures absolutely no movement in the main caps,whereas the others rely on friction to hold the caps in place-it doesn't work on the bottom-why would it work on the top?
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Shawn didn't put one on my 1500 hp setup, though I'd probably start thinking about using one at that power level...
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FormerVendor
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From: Virginia Beach,Virginia
there are alot of factors you need to consider-hp,rpm,stroke,weight of rotating asy,crankshaft design.all of these play a factor into main cap loading and whether or not you should run one.but as a general rule i would say 1200hp with steel rods and 1500hp with alum rods-but there will be 100 guys that will argue that
I originally designed the support for the lsx block,they have the caps doweled already,but the stock blocks should be doweled-I'll do this for an extra $100.00 considering it's only a little bit more machine time.
alot-my support has a mechanical lock into each cap as well as into the oil pan rails of the block,this ensures absolutely no movement in the main caps,whereas the others rely on friction to hold the caps in place-it doesn't work on the bottom-why would it work on the top?
alot-my support has a mechanical lock into each cap as well as into the oil pan rails of the block,this ensures absolutely no movement in the main caps,whereas the others rely on friction to hold the caps in place-it doesn't work on the bottom-why would it work on the top?
so why would someone run yours if all it helps is bottom of main caps? i mean i got close to $600 in mine. that is dowel, girdle, and arp studs.
so if i built another motor. why run yours over DM? just $900 is big difference
One thing that Shawns main girdle does is "keys" the bottom of the motor together. The Billet tool steel key'd into the oil pan rails and the main caps keeps everything from moving. The DM performance is a nice girdle for a low HP setup but its been proven that you don't need a gircan do without1000hp. After seeing how the main webbing and lower end of the motor is moving at high HP levels, the DM just wouldn't have gotten it done.
So as to your cost of the DM, the plate is 389, studs are close to 200. How much did you pay for your dowel pinning and the line hone? Most shops charge $150 for the pinning and $100-$150 for the line hone.
So as to your cost of the DM, the plate is 389, studs are close to 200. How much did you pay for your dowel pinning and the line hone? Most shops charge $150 for the pinning and $100-$150 for the line hone.
One thing that Shawns main girdle does is "keys" the bottom of the motor together. The Billet tool steel key'd into the oil pan rails and the main caps keeps everything from moving. The DM performance is a nice girdle for a low HP setup but its been proven that you don't need a gircan do without1000hp. After seeing how the main webbing and lower end of the motor is moving at high HP levels, the DM just wouldn't have gotten it done.
So as to your cost of the DM, the plate is 389, studs are close to 200. How much did you pay for your dowel pinning and the line hone? Most shops charge $150 for the pinning and $100-$150 for the line hone.
So as to your cost of the DM, the plate is 389, studs are close to 200. How much did you pay for your dowel pinning and the line hone? Most shops charge $150 for the pinning and $100-$150 for the line hone.
second.how is dm for low horse?
katach recommends it for high horse. 750 plus.
and the dm is on a ronnie duke (i dont know who that is. it is on the site) 1500+ horse motor. so how "wouldnt have gotten it done"
So this sits between the block and the oil pan? How much lower will the oil pan now sit? How will this lower oil pan affect my ability to bolt my bell housing to it? What about the oil pickup in relation to the oil pump? Wouldn't that be lower too now? Maybe 1200+ HP guys don't even use that stuff, making it a non-issue...
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
pm me to know cost. sorry not just going to give that out.
second.how is dm for low horse?
katach recommends it for high horse. 750 plus.
and the dm is on a ronnie duke (i dont know who that is. it is on the site) 1500+ horse motor. so how "wouldnt have gotten it done"
second.how is dm for low horse?
katach recommends it for high horse. 750 plus.
and the dm is on a ronnie duke (i dont know who that is. it is on the site) 1500+ horse motor. so how "wouldnt have gotten it done"
1500 isn't alot of horsepower anymore....at 2K+ hp, the builder should be doing what they can to be sure stuff don't move...not hope stuff won't move. trying to save a few hundred dollars at that level will cost ALOT more when it lets go...
fireball. thanks for your help. but i would like to here this from shawn. they made it.
i wasnt saying that 1500 was a lot. or that 1500 isnt a lot. and i undersatnd going cheap is not the right way. but my question is WHY spend the extra $900. if i get the same stuff from $600. and the line hone is used in both girdles. so i didnt include that. so if i include it in mine say 150. then add 150 to his. back to zero.
the ops of my caps dont move cuase of dowel pin. the bottom is tied into girdle which is tied to each other. why tie it to blcok? and like ls1greg said. how does this mess up oil pan? or pump pick up? or bell housing? idk how thick there piece is, but even if it is paper thick it will make a difference. and on top of changing studs to be longer. i also need longer oil pan bolts.
to me(this is my opinion) that is is 1400 + 100 for dowel + 50 for new oil pan bolts + say 150 for redo bell housing + 150 for line hone. well that is like 1850. or spend 389 plate + 200 studs + 150 line hone + 100 for dowel. well that is 839.
i mean $1000 difference if it just hold the main caps from moving?
so shawn. why would someone buy yours over DM? i have a nother build starting and it will be a high horse. so i would like to know which way i am going on this one.
thanks
i wasnt saying that 1500 was a lot. or that 1500 isnt a lot. and i undersatnd going cheap is not the right way. but my question is WHY spend the extra $900. if i get the same stuff from $600. and the line hone is used in both girdles. so i didnt include that. so if i include it in mine say 150. then add 150 to his. back to zero.
the ops of my caps dont move cuase of dowel pin. the bottom is tied into girdle which is tied to each other. why tie it to blcok? and like ls1greg said. how does this mess up oil pan? or pump pick up? or bell housing? idk how thick there piece is, but even if it is paper thick it will make a difference. and on top of changing studs to be longer. i also need longer oil pan bolts.
to me(this is my opinion) that is is 1400 + 100 for dowel + 50 for new oil pan bolts + say 150 for redo bell housing + 150 for line hone. well that is like 1850. or spend 389 plate + 200 studs + 150 line hone + 100 for dowel. well that is 839.
i mean $1000 difference if it just hold the main caps from moving?
so shawn. why would someone buy yours over DM? i have a nother build starting and it will be a high horse. so i would like to know which way i am going on this one.
thanks
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
the ops of my caps dont move cuase of dowel pin. the bottom is tied into girdle which is tied to each other. why tie it to blcok? and like ls1greg said. how does this mess up oil pan? or pump pick up? or bell housing? idk how thick there piece is, but even if it is paper thick it will make a difference. and on top of changing studs to be longer. i also need longer oil pan bolts.
I know I'm not shawn...but I am a mechanical engineer so I know a little about this
tieing to the block distributes the load over a larger area...the whole block can move around...not just the main caps...the idea is to support the entire bottom end...
won't mess the oil pan since it only moves down a little bit...for wetsump, the pickup could be tweaked the additional difference to ensure proper oil scavanging...for drysump, makes no difference
how would the bellhousing be affected? it bolts to the block...something at this power level won't be using a T-56 or 4L60E or a stock oil pan for that matter...so those bottom two bolt holes are irrelevant
Last edited by Fireball; May 11, 2009 at 11:27 AM.
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
the transmission alignment dowels do most of the work, the bolts just keep the mating surfaces secure.