Could my cam Really be Hurting me?
06-29-2009, 12:48 PM
#22
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Although i agree with everyone that my cam is not just KILLING me. I do believe its fair to say its not really an IDEAL camshaft for a turbo car.
So i will be changing it to a more "turbo friendly" piece along with a new set of the recmomended springs.
I dont think it would be fair to change the cam, and dyno compare, because i strongly bieleve my springs arent up to par. so the results would be distorted.
And i wish i had the time to change springs then dyno, then change the cam and again dyno, but i dont. I will however keep everyone updated.
06-29-2009, 02:33 PM
#23
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i don't think the cam is 'killing' the combo. I wonder if anyone could generalize about the differences between's OP's cam and say a single pattern 228/228 with a 114-115. Seems like his current cam might come up on boost faster but have less peak?
06-29-2009, 03:08 PM
#24
This is a mistake. For instance, I run a 224/236-114 cam. I changed it to a 226/226-114 so-called "turbo cam". It was single pattern with 4 deg less overlap than the old one. The combo lost around 30 rwhp. The only way you're going to improve power with a cam swap is to simply add duration, not decrease overlap or decrease exhaust duration.
06-29-2009, 03:16 PM
#25
EVO would be basically the same (within 1 deg).
EVC would be 3 deg earlier and IVO would be 2 deg later, resulting in a decrease in overlap of 5 deg. In going from 5 deg overlap to 0 deg, the result will be a loss in power. The only thing gained here is idle quality and P-V clearance.
IVC would be 2 deg sooner, moving the powerband slightly lower in the rpm range and reducing peak hp.
Mike
06-29-2009, 05:07 PM
#26
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This is a dyno pull from the other day with i believe 13 psi
see what i mean. it sucks. It Looks like crap after the turbo comes in... Float?
see what i mean. it sucks. It Looks like crap after the turbo comes in... Float?
Last edited by SD99TA214; 06-29-2009 at 05:26 PM.
06-29-2009, 05:08 PM
#27
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When going from 228/230-112 to 228/228-114...
EVO would be basically the same (within 1 deg).
EVC would be 3 deg earlier and IVO would be 2 deg later, resulting in a decrease in overlap of 5 deg. In going from 5 deg overlap to 0 deg, the result will be a loss in power. The only thing gained here is idle quality and P-V clearance.
IVC would be 2 deg sooner, moving the powerband slightly lower in the rpm range and reducing peak hp.
Mike
EVO would be basically the same (within 1 deg).
EVC would be 3 deg earlier and IVO would be 2 deg later, resulting in a decrease in overlap of 5 deg. In going from 5 deg overlap to 0 deg, the result will be a loss in power. The only thing gained here is idle quality and P-V clearance.
IVC would be 2 deg sooner, moving the powerband slightly lower in the rpm range and reducing peak hp.
Mike
Maybe we can get some hard numbers.
. I learned my lesson. I'm voting definite valve float.
06-29-2009, 05:58 PM
#29
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Thanks man. Ya i think thats gonna be everyone elses definate decision when they see my dyno graph.
Wierd how some stuff will just stare you right in the face.
I guess i just assumed that VALVE FLOAT would pop and miss up high , but my car is always so SMOOTH dispite the way the graph looks.
Wierd how some stuff will just stare you right in the face.
I guess i just assumed that VALVE FLOAT would pop and miss up high , but my car is always so SMOOTH dispite the way the graph looks.
06-30-2009, 12:08 PM
#33
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gooodluck with changing the springs can't wait to see how it does. i am going turbo soon and was thinkin of going turbo cam instead of mine but might just keep to see how it goes 
haha.
haha.
06-30-2009, 12:37 PM
#34
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Ya , seems like for as much hype that there is about "turbo" cams, there isnt really any hard data to PROVE that there actualy that much better then just a nice N/A piece , In a lower HP application. Now 1300 hp ya i can see the neccesity. or in a situation where every .01 of a second of your e.t. could make the differance in winning or losing. But a everyday DD street car?
From what im gathering, in order for a camshaft to REALLY be hurting a turbo car youd have to have a real distorted specd cam. And if you did have a wild one it probably wouldnt run that great in a N/A motor or a nitrous or S/C car
So basicly, im thinking ....NO circle track cams LOL
From what im gathering, in order for a camshaft to REALLY be hurting a turbo car youd have to have a real distorted specd cam. And if you did have a wild one it probably wouldnt run that great in a N/A motor or a nitrous or S/C car
So basicly, im thinking ....NO circle track cams LOL
06-30-2009, 01:27 PM
#37
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918's are not enough for your combo, I think the spring swap will fix the problem.
I'd keep an eye out for an LS6 intake, it's worth some power and that's a good bolt-on.
I made 754rwhp with an LS6 intake, 8:1 348 cid, YSi blower, 21.5 psi, ported 317's. Went 9.40@143mph with 18 psi and 680rwhp unlocked TH400. Ran a 4600 stall, 3.50 gears, and 28x10.5 slicks. This was with a 236/246 cam i think the lsa was 114.
I made 867rhwp with an ls2 intake, same shortblock new cam, 88mm turbo, all pro heads. Went 9.44@144 with issues. Cam was swapped to 236/236//113 or whatever the Speed Inc bigger turbo cam is. Peak was maybe 6400 rpms I don't recall.
----
More duration means the cam is bigger. We all generally speaking that if you keep the engine size the same, and keep swapping in increasingly larger cams that you need to spin the combo a little higher since the power peak max rpm moves higher. Look at Kevin P's (kp's) black TransAm. He swapped from I think a Z06 cam to a bigger but smallish cam, to an even larger cam. I think he picked up some power with every swap but from the z06 cam to his last final cam, I wonder if he thinks he picked up 30hp or 50hp or more? I think somewhere in that range, maybe he will chime in.
The problem with big single pattern cams is not the exhaust duration but the intake duration. The intake duration will make it harder for the combo to spool up.
If you ran a 240/248 cam in a 348 cid, what lope sep would you? 240/248//110?
I'm not a cam guy but have hung out with really smart folks.
I'd keep an eye out for an LS6 intake, it's worth some power and that's a good bolt-on.
I made 754rwhp with an LS6 intake, 8:1 348 cid, YSi blower, 21.5 psi, ported 317's. Went 9.40@143mph with 18 psi and 680rwhp unlocked TH400. Ran a 4600 stall, 3.50 gears, and 28x10.5 slicks. This was with a 236/246 cam i think the lsa was 114.
I made 867rhwp with an ls2 intake, same shortblock new cam, 88mm turbo, all pro heads. Went 9.44@144 with issues. Cam was swapped to 236/236//113 or whatever the Speed Inc bigger turbo cam is. Peak was maybe 6400 rpms I don't recall.
----
More duration means the cam is bigger. We all generally speaking that if you keep the engine size the same, and keep swapping in increasingly larger cams that you need to spin the combo a little higher since the power peak max rpm moves higher. Look at Kevin P's (kp's) black TransAm. He swapped from I think a Z06 cam to a bigger but smallish cam, to an even larger cam. I think he picked up some power with every swap but from the z06 cam to his last final cam, I wonder if he thinks he picked up 30hp or 50hp or more? I think somewhere in that range, maybe he will chime in.
The problem with big single pattern cams is not the exhaust duration but the intake duration. The intake duration will make it harder for the combo to spool up.
If you ran a 240/248 cam in a 348 cid, what lope sep would you? 240/248//110?
I'm not a cam guy but have hung out with really smart folks.
06-30-2009, 01:52 PM
#38
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918's are not enough for your combo, I think the spring swap will fix the problem.
I'd keep an eye out for an LS6 intake, it's worth some power and that's a good bolt-on.
I made 754rwhp with an LS6 intake, 8:1 348 cid, YSi blower, 21.5 psi, ported 317's. Went 9.40@143mph with 18 psi and 680rwhp unlocked TH400. Ran a 4600 stall, 3.50 gears, and 28x10.5 slicks. This was with a 236/246 cam i think the lsa was 114.
I made 867rhwp with an ls2 intake, same shortblock new cam, 88mm turbo, all pro heads. Went 9.44@144 with issues. Cam was swapped to 236/236//113 or whatever the Speed Inc bigger turbo cam is. Peak was maybe 6400 rpms I don't recall.
----
More duration means the cam is bigger. We all generally speaking that if you keep the engine size the same, and keep swapping in increasingly larger cams that you need to spin the combo a little higher since the power peak max rpm moves higher. Look at Kevin P's (kp's) black TransAm. He swapped from I think a Z06 cam to a bigger but smallish cam, to an even larger cam. I think he picked up some power with every swap but from the z06 cam to his last final cam, I wonder if he thinks he picked up 30hp or 50hp or more? I think somewhere in that range, maybe he will chime in.
The problem with big single pattern cams is not the exhaust duration but the intake duration. The intake duration will make it harder for the combo to spool up.
If you ran a 240/248 cam in a 348 cid, what lope sep would you? 240/248//110?
I'm not a cam guy but have hung out with really smart folks.
I'd keep an eye out for an LS6 intake, it's worth some power and that's a good bolt-on.
I made 754rwhp with an LS6 intake, 8:1 348 cid, YSi blower, 21.5 psi, ported 317's. Went 9.40@143mph with 18 psi and 680rwhp unlocked TH400. Ran a 4600 stall, 3.50 gears, and 28x10.5 slicks. This was with a 236/246 cam i think the lsa was 114.
I made 867rhwp with an ls2 intake, same shortblock new cam, 88mm turbo, all pro heads. Went 9.44@144 with issues. Cam was swapped to 236/236//113 or whatever the Speed Inc bigger turbo cam is. Peak was maybe 6400 rpms I don't recall.
----
More duration means the cam is bigger. We all generally speaking that if you keep the engine size the same, and keep swapping in increasingly larger cams that you need to spin the combo a little higher since the power peak max rpm moves higher. Look at Kevin P's (kp's) black TransAm. He swapped from I think a Z06 cam to a bigger but smallish cam, to an even larger cam. I think he picked up some power with every swap but from the z06 cam to his last final cam, I wonder if he thinks he picked up 30hp or 50hp or more? I think somewhere in that range, maybe he will chime in.
The problem with big single pattern cams is not the exhaust duration but the intake duration. The intake duration will make it harder for the combo to spool up.
If you ran a 240/248 cam in a 348 cid, what lope sep would you? 240/248//110?
I'm not a cam guy but have hung out with really smart folks.
07-09-2009, 04:48 PM
#39
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OK so heres the update
Little Iritatted..
saw a sweet deal on an lq4 shortblock with low miles, said what the hell, so took EVERYTHING from my motor ,put it on the Lq4 and put it in the car with an addition of the Patriot golds.
470 rwhp and 460 trq 11.5:1 afr straight across and 12 degrees timing with 13 psi........NO valve float this time , good and clean, just no power!!!!!! what gives?
You guys sure about this cam on a turbo car?
Little Iritatted..
saw a sweet deal on an lq4 shortblock with low miles, said what the hell, so took EVERYTHING from my motor ,put it on the Lq4 and put it in the car with an addition of the Patriot golds.
470 rwhp and 460 trq 11.5:1 afr straight across and 12 degrees timing with 13 psi........NO valve float this time , good and clean, just no power!!!!!! what gives?
You guys sure about this cam on a turbo car?