Turbo vs. Supercharger help
07-04-2009, 05:23 PM
#41
i would get the base kit from josh... he really knows what hes talking about and makes amazing kits. with their base kit you can make an easy 6-700 rwhp with the right set up.
07-04-2009, 11:04 PM
#42
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Since you have decided to go turbo, Josh is the man to talk to. He also knows first hand the engine I emailed you about. That engine, his turbo setup, would easily make your street car a menace to most....but it's all in what you want to spend....I have many contacts, and cannot build that shortblock for that price.....But I don't know what type of crank/rods, or pistons you are wanting to use, nor do I have your budget lol.
07-05-2009, 06:02 AM
#43
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Well Im in the middle of trying to figure out if thats the route i want to take. I like turbos alot and love the boost from them, but Im now leaning more toward the procharger units for the power.
07-05-2009, 04:25 PM
#45
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I understand the whole budget thing but If I go either setup its going to be close either way, so thats why I am trying to figure power to money ratio between the two. I dont want to build a SC and be kicking myself in the *** because I wished I would have gone the other route and vise versa
07-05-2009, 04:51 PM
#46
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How much power are you wanting?
These are pretty nice numbers for a street car:
stock 346
approx 9.2:1 (6.0 heads stock)
ATI Dampner/4.25
FMIC OBX
cam size 221/227 .580 114lsa
transmission stock M6
gears 3.70 9"
D1SC 12psi @ 6500rpm
extras: Meth, Racetronix single pump, 60lb inj., JetHot LTs no cats.
Tuner: Tuned by Rick @ Synergy
Power: 651rwhp/558rwtq
Dyno: Dynapac Dyno
These are pretty nice numbers for a street car:
stock 346
approx 9.2:1 (6.0 heads stock)
ATI Dampner/4.25
FMIC OBX
cam size 221/227 .580 114lsa
transmission stock M6
gears 3.70 9"
D1SC 12psi @ 6500rpm
extras: Meth, Racetronix single pump, 60lb inj., JetHot LTs no cats.
Tuner: Tuned by Rick @ Synergy
Power: 651rwhp/558rwtq
Dyno: Dynapac Dyno
Last edited by Derek@BPP; 07-05-2009 at 05:00 PM.
07-05-2009, 08:45 PM
#48
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I didn't make those number. I was using them from another thread,
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...-power-d1.html
But very nice numbers either way.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...-power-d1.html
But very nice numbers either way.
07-05-2009, 08:47 PM
#49
I'd vote for a procharger. And yes I'm biased. I will honestly say I've never had a turbo car, so I can't speak for them. But I have had a couple procharged cars, and I've always been happy with the results I've got from what I have. I've never felt compelled at all to own a turbo setup after owning prochargers.
When I first started researching many years ago before I ever dove into forced induction, I found out just how much a turbo setup requires. Man, there is easily 2x more components and hassling than what you get with a self contained procharger. A procharger is literally a freakin bolt on! No changing exhaust required, no screwing around with oil lines or pumps, really, all you have to worry about as far as supporting it is the fueling system, but you have to do that with turbos as well.
Bottom line is, both have great capabilities, and both ways can get you great power and each has different pros and cons. I vote for simplicity. Forced induction setups are already a big enough headache and hassle any way you slice it. Why complicate it even more?
When I first started researching many years ago before I ever dove into forced induction, I found out just how much a turbo setup requires. Man, there is easily 2x more components and hassling than what you get with a self contained procharger. A procharger is literally a freakin bolt on! No changing exhaust required, no screwing around with oil lines or pumps, really, all you have to worry about as far as supporting it is the fueling system, but you have to do that with turbos as well.
Bottom line is, both have great capabilities, and both ways can get you great power and each has different pros and cons. I vote for simplicity. Forced induction setups are already a big enough headache and hassle any way you slice it. Why complicate it even more?
07-05-2009, 09:44 PM
#50
I would hold off on the built bottom end right now, and just buy a more then you need fuel system,..get a good waste gate and boost controller, and run a turbo or twins on a stock motor for now. The stock bottom sill handle a good amount of power to make your panties wet. I'd save your money for the bottom end and just do heads studs and rod bolts. Mine Made well over 700rwhp.
The turbo is a much easier/cheaper to grow/upgrade with any and make go faster in my experience(nitrous/blowers/turbos).
Key factor is fueling nd a great tune to make any motor last. The LS platform is better then some think.
The turbo is a much easier/cheaper to grow/upgrade with any and make go faster in my experience(nitrous/blowers/turbos).
Key factor is fueling nd a great tune to make any motor last. The LS platform is better then some think.
07-07-2009, 03:13 AM
#51
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Well Thanks for all your posts, you all have helped me out and figured out the things to consider. I will hopefully start looking around for parts to start my build! I will keep you posted and let you know how things go!
07-15-2009, 08:27 AM
#52
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I like my current setup. Turbos still have advantage of being able to change boost with push of button.Can run lower for daily driving and crank it up for track or whenever.
New controllers like eboost or ams help traction by letting you ramp up boost by rpm, time,gear,etc. Turbos can hit pretty hard but with the right tires not a huge deal.My nittos do not too bad by top of third at about 650rwhp setting. Have some et street radials for when want to hook up better and going to be running some new street tires for daily driving which won't hook up well in the lower gears but should still be fine for daily driving.
New controllers like eboost or ams help traction by letting you ramp up boost by rpm, time,gear,etc. Turbos can hit pretty hard but with the right tires not a huge deal.My nittos do not too bad by top of third at about 650rwhp setting. Have some et street radials for when want to hook up better and going to be running some new street tires for daily driving which won't hook up well in the lower gears but should still be fine for daily driving.
07-15-2009, 09:40 AM
#53
No dyno or track numbers just yet. Waiting for auto swap first.I have my t56 half sold to local buddy and can't be tracking the car in case hurt the stock t56. Also would want to tune and dyno at same time. And going to be upgrading current turbos over winter for sure to bigger ones. New upgraded turbos can do 1400 engine hp max and do have a 300 shot max potential on the car as well. But only want to put thru maybe 1000rwhp max on my 408. I am not sure how much past 1000rwhp the 408 can take .If went to the bigger power would want an LSX block build in there.
My original goal hp was 1000 engine hp thats what my plate was meant to represent.
Now should easily be able to get to 800rwhp thru the auto with combination of fairly low boost on the upgraded turbos and small shots of spray. Instant spool up when the spray hits and nice cooling effect.
For now estimate my car should have around 600rwhp to 650rwhp from comparing to other cars with similar hardware. Here is an example of guy running same heads and same cam as me in a 402 .I have fast intake in my build might be giving me a bit more.And I have underdrive pulley and 1.8 rockers and electric cutout. Still have to get my alc injection system.
Again this is similar setup in a vette
ere are the Hp setting:
1.606rwhp -640trq - 7.6 psi. 91 pump gas ( my wife drives the car with no problems
2.656rwhp -670trq 9.0 psi
3.707rwhp -773trq 11.6psi
4.736rwhp -812trq 13. psi
car makes 735rwhp(over 840 HP at the crank) on 13psi 812rwtrq(over 900 TRQ at the crank) ..car is a beast. will do the 1/4 LOW 10'S AND over 138+ mph.
condition is 8.5 /10 (its an 2002)
Here is the list of mods:
I just had a wideband installed- 250.00 plus install
( so the picture with the gauges has a wideband instead of the second boost gauge.)
Everything is done RIGHT - no corners cut!!
L.A.P.D did the install and they have done over 50 APS cars.
car has 35,500 miles and only aprox 2,000 miles on new Lingenfelter engine
2002 z06 red/black interior
APS twin turbos- $7995.00
LPE 255 fuel pump -$285.00
A&A return fuel system with a 340 secondary pump (can handle 900rwhp+) $1100.00
motrons 60 pound injectors -$499.00
magnavolt BAP-$220.00
Mcleod twin disc clutch rated at 1295rtq-$1301.00
eboost2 boost controller-$499.00
ALKY control methanol injection-$499.00
c5 black motorsports rims( i have the original stock rims , i will include with the car) $799.00
custom ART 3 inch exhaust with magnaflow mufflers $1400.00
SD 2 bar tune(you can drive the car anywhere) $800.00
lingenfelter output shafts on both sides - $999.00
brembo slotted front and back rotors /hawk pads- $520.00
steel braided brake lines
upgrades Steel BOV-$300.00
AFR 225CC heads with dual extreme springs-$2475.00
---------------------
from
403 lingenfelter forged (can handle 1000rwhp)-6340.00 (i have receipt)
LPE cam LS1-GT7 208 / 230 .554" / .546" 1.7 ratio 121 (idols like stock)
Clevite Tri-Armor Coated Rod & Main Bearings
GM LS2 aluminum block - 4.0050" bore
Water jacket plugs, oil galley & cam bearings
Manley forged aluminum pistons
custom turbo Seal Rings
Manley H Beam 4340 forged steel connecting rods - 6.125
Callies LS2 4340 forged steel crankshaft
Speed Pro heavy duty rod bearings
Speed Pro heavy duty main bearings
GM High Volume Oil Pump
GM Hydraulic roller lifters
Competition Cams .080 Pushrods
My original goal hp was 1000 engine hp thats what my plate was meant to represent.
Now should easily be able to get to 800rwhp thru the auto with combination of fairly low boost on the upgraded turbos and small shots of spray. Instant spool up when the spray hits and nice cooling effect.
For now estimate my car should have around 600rwhp to 650rwhp from comparing to other cars with similar hardware. Here is an example of guy running same heads and same cam as me in a 402 .I have fast intake in my build might be giving me a bit more.And I have underdrive pulley and 1.8 rockers and electric cutout. Still have to get my alc injection system.
Again this is similar setup in a vette
ere are the Hp setting:
1.606rwhp -640trq - 7.6 psi. 91 pump gas ( my wife drives the car with no problems
2.656rwhp -670trq 9.0 psi
3.707rwhp -773trq 11.6psi
4.736rwhp -812trq 13. psi
car makes 735rwhp(over 840 HP at the crank) on 13psi 812rwtrq(over 900 TRQ at the crank) ..car is a beast. will do the 1/4 LOW 10'S AND over 138+ mph.
condition is 8.5 /10 (its an 2002)
Here is the list of mods:
I just had a wideband installed- 250.00 plus install
( so the picture with the gauges has a wideband instead of the second boost gauge.)
Everything is done RIGHT - no corners cut!!
L.A.P.D did the install and they have done over 50 APS cars.
car has 35,500 miles and only aprox 2,000 miles on new Lingenfelter engine
2002 z06 red/black interior
APS twin turbos- $7995.00
LPE 255 fuel pump -$285.00
A&A return fuel system with a 340 secondary pump (can handle 900rwhp+) $1100.00
motrons 60 pound injectors -$499.00
magnavolt BAP-$220.00
Mcleod twin disc clutch rated at 1295rtq-$1301.00
eboost2 boost controller-$499.00
ALKY control methanol injection-$499.00
c5 black motorsports rims( i have the original stock rims , i will include with the car) $799.00
custom ART 3 inch exhaust with magnaflow mufflers $1400.00
SD 2 bar tune(you can drive the car anywhere) $800.00
lingenfelter output shafts on both sides - $999.00
brembo slotted front and back rotors /hawk pads- $520.00
steel braided brake lines
upgrades Steel BOV-$300.00
AFR 225CC heads with dual extreme springs-$2475.00
---------------------
from
403 lingenfelter forged (can handle 1000rwhp)-6340.00 (i have receipt)
LPE cam LS1-GT7 208 / 230 .554" / .546" 1.7 ratio 121 (idols like stock)
Clevite Tri-Armor Coated Rod & Main Bearings
GM LS2 aluminum block - 4.0050" bore
Water jacket plugs, oil galley & cam bearings
Manley forged aluminum pistons
custom turbo Seal Rings
Manley H Beam 4340 forged steel connecting rods - 6.125
Callies LS2 4340 forged steel crankshaft
Speed Pro heavy duty rod bearings
Speed Pro heavy duty main bearings
GM High Volume Oil Pump
GM Hydraulic roller lifters
Competition Cams .080 Pushrods
