Cogged setup pt. II
11-17-2003, 05:36 PM
#21
Doh! my bad Clay, I got you mixed up with clint from aurora running the P1 with a cog set up. Sorry for the confusion buddy I meant no harm
I am getting up there in years and my mind slips from time to time.
Here is the post on other FI board.
Posted by Hugger Orange SS.
"Belts have lasted me only a few miles to about 1500 + miles.
Remember I'm really spinning my blower hard and in doing so, putting more stress on the belt itself. You guys may not need to spin the blower this hard. If you align the blower correctly to the crank pulley, the belt is nice and stright, not riding on an edge, it should last you for a while, 2000 miles +. My current one has lasted me about 1500 miles and still looks/feels great!! I say only 2,000 miles because I have never gone past 2,000 miles, I'm sure someone can.
I was using a belt for months and it was working great!! I took down the blower to change the oil and check it out. The belt was in good shape, but used, had about 1500 to 1700 miles on it. I changed it anyway to a new one. Kinda wish I didn't because I tightened the new one down too hard, too much tention! And you all know we don't have a spring tenioner, so too tight or too loose will remain the same. These tooth belts (cogs belts) don't like a lot of tention at all!! It does not need it! Well anyway it was too tight and in about 10 miles driving home from the shop I saw that I lost a lot of boost and heard a drivetrain noise. I stopped the car, got on my back and felt the cogs belt. All the teeth stripped off! Within 10 miles! Way too tight!! So, I went back and put on a new belt. Too bad you got to take off the blower entirely to change the belt.
I am spinning my blower to the MAX, there would be no way I could tdo this without a COG pulley system. If I was back to my 6 rib belt system, I would be slipping all the time!! The P-1SC-1 unit has a max impeller speed of 65,000 rpms. I'm spinning my blower to 64,000 impeller rpms. Blower is still holding strong!! Got to love ATI. The cog belts don't like me that much, but if I have it aligned just right with the use of different size washers on the blower brackets. And if I have the tention just right on the tentioner for the cog belt. It leasts me a long time. You other guys out there probibly won't need to spin the blower as hard as I am, and if you take your time and get the blower aligned up and the tention of the belt aligned up. Remember the cogs belt likes to be a little loose, which is oppisite from the 6 rib belt! I remember when I had a 6 rib belt system, man was the belt tight, to see any boost!! Remember the cog belt likes to be on the loose side. Of course you need it snug on the pulleys, but not tight!
The COGS system will work wonders for ya! No slipping at all!! See all the boost all the time."
Take care.
Clint
So there is the post I was going off of, wrong person though my screw up
Sounds like you got the right tensioning technique
J
I am getting up there in years and my mind slips from time to time.Here is the post on other FI board.
Posted by Hugger Orange SS.
"Belts have lasted me only a few miles to about 1500 + miles.
Remember I'm really spinning my blower hard and in doing so, putting more stress on the belt itself. You guys may not need to spin the blower this hard. If you align the blower correctly to the crank pulley, the belt is nice and stright, not riding on an edge, it should last you for a while, 2000 miles +. My current one has lasted me about 1500 miles and still looks/feels great!! I say only 2,000 miles because I have never gone past 2,000 miles, I'm sure someone can.
I was using a belt for months and it was working great!! I took down the blower to change the oil and check it out. The belt was in good shape, but used, had about 1500 to 1700 miles on it. I changed it anyway to a new one. Kinda wish I didn't because I tightened the new one down too hard, too much tention! And you all know we don't have a spring tenioner, so too tight or too loose will remain the same. These tooth belts (cogs belts) don't like a lot of tention at all!! It does not need it! Well anyway it was too tight and in about 10 miles driving home from the shop I saw that I lost a lot of boost and heard a drivetrain noise. I stopped the car, got on my back and felt the cogs belt. All the teeth stripped off! Within 10 miles! Way too tight!! So, I went back and put on a new belt. Too bad you got to take off the blower entirely to change the belt.
I am spinning my blower to the MAX, there would be no way I could tdo this without a COG pulley system. If I was back to my 6 rib belt system, I would be slipping all the time!! The P-1SC-1 unit has a max impeller speed of 65,000 rpms. I'm spinning my blower to 64,000 impeller rpms. Blower is still holding strong!! Got to love ATI. The cog belts don't like me that much, but if I have it aligned just right with the use of different size washers on the blower brackets. And if I have the tention just right on the tentioner for the cog belt. It leasts me a long time. You other guys out there probibly won't need to spin the blower as hard as I am, and if you take your time and get the blower aligned up and the tention of the belt aligned up. Remember the cogs belt likes to be a little loose, which is oppisite from the 6 rib belt! I remember when I had a 6 rib belt system, man was the belt tight, to see any boost!! Remember the cog belt likes to be on the loose side. Of course you need it snug on the pulleys, but not tight!
The COGS system will work wonders for ya! No slipping at all!! See all the boost all the time."
Take care.
Clint
So there is the post I was going off of, wrong person though my screw up
Sounds like you got the right tensioning techniqueJ
11-17-2003, 06:31 PM
#22
Sounds awsome....... I cant wait. As soon as i pull this motor and install my 382 im ordering the COG setuo from ASP. I finally decided on my new cam so ill only be spinning to 6800rpm so ill be just the same as you FRCEFED.
Keep us posted
Kyle
Keep us posted
Kyle
11-17-2003, 07:20 PM
#23
Teching In
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frcefed98, no problem on the identity theft...
And, my only comment on what Clint wrote, is regarding the tensioning. What he wrote is what he determined by trial and error on his setup. That will vary from one to another.
Case in point, with my setup, Gates software determined that my PolyGrip needed approx 13# force to deflect .2". I would not describe that as 'loose'. Yet, if I used a PolyChain belt, the tension increases to nearly 18#.
Gates documentation in tensioning basically states that if the belt is too loose, the teeth will be stripped. This is because as the belt speed increases towards max RPM, this forces the belt outward and thus less than the full face of the tooth is in contact with the sprocket and therein the teeth are actually sheared off under load. When the belt is too tight, it reduces belt life significantly.
And, my only comment on what Clint wrote, is regarding the tensioning. What he wrote is what he determined by trial and error on his setup. That will vary from one to another.
Case in point, with my setup, Gates software determined that my PolyGrip needed approx 13# force to deflect .2". I would not describe that as 'loose'. Yet, if I used a PolyChain belt, the tension increases to nearly 18#.
Gates documentation in tensioning basically states that if the belt is too loose, the teeth will be stripped. This is because as the belt speed increases towards max RPM, this forces the belt outward and thus less than the full face of the tooth is in contact with the sprocket and therein the teeth are actually sheared off under load. When the belt is too tight, it reduces belt life significantly.
11-17-2003, 11:38 PM
#24
TECH Resident
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2fast4u2 i must have missed it somewhere but what system are you using ,an F1?
i still do like the idea of a ribbed belt ASP said they can make a 10 and a 12 rib system .A 10 rib is 1.400 wide . A 12 rib is 1.68.
2fast4u2 your insight on the tension has floored me i have never even considered what you have just been putting down. Great info and where can i get that software?
i still do like the idea of a ribbed belt ASP said they can make a 10 and a 12 rib system .A 10 rib is 1.400 wide . A 12 rib is 1.68.
2fast4u2 your insight on the tension has floored me i have never even considered what you have just been putting down. Great info and where can i get that software?
Last edited by KHShapiro; 11-17-2003 at 11:43 PM.
11-18-2003, 01:15 AM
#25
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chi-Town, IL
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rib belts if you want to go fast are a waste of time, I haven't seen a proven 10/12 rib setup yet, if someone does it, its something to consider in the future for others, but I've had no luck what so ever.....
11-18-2003, 01:29 AM
#26
8 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: the not so stock tribe
Posts: 3,697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
think of how much you have to space the blower forward if you were going to use a 10 / 12 rib setup.
i don't think it would be possible given the space constraints we have to deal with.
i don't think it would be possible given the space constraints we have to deal with.
11-18-2003, 04:28 AM
#27
Moderator
Originally Posted by 1dirtyZ
think of how much you have to space the blower forward if you were going to use a 10 / 12 rib setup.
i don't think it would be possible given the space constraints we have to deal with.
i don't think it would be possible given the space constraints we have to deal with.
11-18-2003, 09:26 AM
#28
Teching In
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
where can i get that software?
From there, you can search for 'Compass'. The software is such that you can download it for free. Also, you can wander to their "Automotive > Racing" page wherein you will see a pretty cool article on the PolyChain belt as used on top fuel cars.
Myself, I had a D1-SC for a couple years, and since then I have had an F series.
11-18-2003, 09:42 AM
#29
Teching In
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KHShapiro
Great info and where can i get that <info>?
They have seperate manuals for the PolyChain as well as the PolyGrip belts. The PolyChain PDF is 137 pages of highly interesting reading. The PolyGrip is 179 pages.
Needless to say, most answers to questions can be found therein. However, note that these, and all other such belts, were not intended for our high speed (RPM) applications. While they can be used, the design guides do not cover what happens above 3450 rpm. However, since blowers generate near peak load below this rpm, and since a belts' load carrying ability increases with rpm, the design methodology and criteria still apply.
