Ok, supercharger or turbo... lets here what you like more on the LS1
09-09-2009, 11:39 AM
#21
I'm in about the same boat as you Ian. I have a turbo 6g72 eclipse GT and while it eats up about every NA V8 I've come across, it just doesn't touch boosted V8s. In my book there really isn't a comparison, turbo all the way. I keep reading about people crying over the lack of engine bay space to mount turbos but compared to my eclipse it looks like a walk in the park. The truck manifold setup is what I plan on doing once I find the right f body.
09-09-2009, 03:08 PM
#22
Launching!
LOL, you have never tried to install a kit in a f-body though correct? Sayin it's a walk in the park is far from correct. Do some searching & read thru some install threads & the things that had to be done to make everything work if your doin it yourself & not having a shop do the install.
09-09-2009, 03:34 PM
#23
And exactly what does this have to do with your comment about it being a walk in the park on a f-body? There isnt as much room to work as it appears once you start flipping manifolds over for a turbo kit. Like I said do more reading on it for these car, not imports before tryin to say installs are a walk in the park. It has been proven otherwise on many turbo builds.
09-09-2009, 03:49 PM
#24
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Its like ya'll said everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what the OP is wanting to hear. To my knowledge a car has never came factory with a centrifugal supercharger on it. And I can make a grocery list of cars to come with turbos and intercoolers so you cant really knock the reliability of them. And just to defend my point I did post the last part separate so he would know that was my opinion only speaking.
But you are wrong on the initial cost part, I said if he had an ability to get the fab work done it would be cheaper or for that matter people have gone single digits on e-bay $500 hot side parts and $250 e-bay intercooler and pipe kits so it wouldn't be cheaper to do a s/c, there are plenty of guys on this board that can attest to doing a custom turbo kit including all the parts for less than 4k, you cant get a S/C kit for that much.
But you are wrong on the initial cost part, I said if he had an ability to get the fab work done it would be cheaper or for that matter people have gone single digits on e-bay $500 hot side parts and $250 e-bay intercooler and pipe kits so it wouldn't be cheaper to do a s/c, there are plenty of guys on this board that can attest to doing a custom turbo kit including all the parts for less than 4k, you cant get a S/C kit for that much.
09-09-2009, 03:56 PM
#25
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Im biased, after seeing 2 cars here have constant trouble with a d1sc breaking belts even with the right parts, then 1 went to a f1a and shredded the belt, it rubbed a hole in the be cool radiator twice and just plain and simple has fitment issues I voted against them. It took him 3 tries to figure out what the right bracket and tensioner was for the setup and sadly enough it was a Vortech design that worked. I love the vortech setups as 2 guys here have the YSI and push well into 800rwhp and have no issues whatsoever but it makes the engine bay almost impossible to access.
Yes you have to stand the radiator up in a turbo setup but there are plenty of ways around not having to relocate anything or buy a turbo k member and the day a vortech or procharger full setup is $4500 shipped new and can put the numbers down like this then I will buy one untill then I will stay turbo. When you want the blowers to put that out you almost always have to upgrade the head unit which is $2000+ ontop of the $6-8000 you already spent for the original setup!
Granted you can sell your old head unit but your still out $1000 or more. So your talking $7-10000 for a proper blower setup to be in the 800+ range efficiently without maxing out the head unit. My boss has at least $8000 in his YSI setup then about another $12000 into the car to take all the power and be able to drive it daily get 20+ mpg and not have to worry what is going to break.
So yes I will take my $4500 turbo kit and dump another $6-8000 into the rest of the car to take it.
Plain and simple is if you want to stay under 600rwhp then blower any day cant beat it. But when your getting into parts like this that are more than what you paid for the whole car itself is crazy. Plan on keeping the car you will never get what you put into it.
Yes you have to stand the radiator up in a turbo setup but there are plenty of ways around not having to relocate anything or buy a turbo k member and the day a vortech or procharger full setup is $4500 shipped new and can put the numbers down like this then I will buy one untill then I will stay turbo. When you want the blowers to put that out you almost always have to upgrade the head unit which is $2000+ ontop of the $6-8000 you already spent for the original setup!
Granted you can sell your old head unit but your still out $1000 or more. So your talking $7-10000 for a proper blower setup to be in the 800+ range efficiently without maxing out the head unit. My boss has at least $8000 in his YSI setup then about another $12000 into the car to take all the power and be able to drive it daily get 20+ mpg and not have to worry what is going to break.
So yes I will take my $4500 turbo kit and dump another $6-8000 into the rest of the car to take it.
Plain and simple is if you want to stay under 600rwhp then blower any day cant beat it. But when your getting into parts like this that are more than what you paid for the whole car itself is crazy. Plan on keeping the car you will never get what you put into it.
09-10-2009, 01:06 AM
#26
Its like ya'll said everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what the OP is wanting to hear. To my knowledge a car has never came factory with a centrifugal supercharger on it. And I can make a grocery list of cars to come with turbos and intercoolers so you cant really knock the reliability of them. And just to defend my point I did post the last part separate so he would know that was my opinion only speaking.
But you are wrong on the initial cost part, I said if he had an ability to get the fab work done it would be cheaper or for that matter people have gone single digits on e-bay $500 hot side parts and $250 e-bay intercooler and pipe kits so it wouldn't be cheaper to do a s/c, there are plenty of guys on this board that can attest to doing a custom turbo kit including all the parts for less than 4k, you cant get a S/C kit for that much.
But you are wrong on the initial cost part, I said if he had an ability to get the fab work done it would be cheaper or for that matter people have gone single digits on e-bay $500 hot side parts and $250 e-bay intercooler and pipe kits so it wouldn't be cheaper to do a s/c, there are plenty of guys on this board that can attest to doing a custom turbo kit including all the parts for less than 4k, you cant get a S/C kit for that much.
$250 IC & cold side piping for turbo = $250 IC & cold side piping for S/C
I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag on you on the $4k comment as well. I JUST helped a buddy do a D1SC setup and total he has right at $3k in parts. He is fully capable of doing his own welding for the pipes (I know, he did the welding on my setup). Yes, thats with a slightly used low mileage D1SC, but even if he bought new, he could have had everything for under $4k
I'm done e-arguing LOL I don't care what the OP decides to do honestly. I don't need to defend prochargers. Everyone doesnt have to like them, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just hate it when their opinions are based on false data, and even worse when they try to spread that false data to others who dont know any better.. At the end of the day, any FI setup will get the job done. There is a million ways to skin this cat. boost = boost, so lets just all get along
lol
09-10-2009, 05:35 AM
#27
09-10-2009, 06:33 AM
#28
$500 hot side > $100 bracket + $150 in pulleys
$250 IC & cold side piping for turbo = $250 IC & cold side piping for S/C
I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag on you on the $4k comment as well. I JUST helped a buddy do a D1SC setup and total he has right at $3k in parts. He is fully capable of doing his own welding for the pipes (I know, he did the welding on my setup). Yes, thats with a slightly used low mileage D1SC, but even if he bought new, he could have had everything for under $4k
I'm done e-arguing LOL I don't care what the OP decides to do honestly. I don't need to defend prochargers. Everyone doesnt have to like them, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just hate it when their opinions are based on false data, and even worse when they try to spread that false data to others who dont know any better.. At the end of the day, any FI setup will get the job done. There is a million ways to skin this cat. boost = boost, so lets just all get along lol
$250 IC & cold side piping for turbo = $250 IC & cold side piping for S/C
I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag on you on the $4k comment as well. I JUST helped a buddy do a D1SC setup and total he has right at $3k in parts. He is fully capable of doing his own welding for the pipes (I know, he did the welding on my setup). Yes, thats with a slightly used low mileage D1SC, but even if he bought new, he could have had everything for under $4k
I'm done e-arguing LOL I don't care what the OP decides to do honestly. I don't need to defend prochargers. Everyone doesnt have to like them, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just hate it when their opinions are based on false data, and even worse when they try to spread that false data to others who dont know any better.. At the end of the day, any FI setup will get the job done. There is a million ways to skin this cat. boost = boost, so lets just all get along
lol
09-10-2009, 11:16 AM
#29
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My setup
Tubular headers
crossover pipe
downpipe
JGS 40mm wastegate
JGS 50mm blowoff valve
TC78 turbo
Frontmount with piping
Oil feed and return
$3845 plus shipping.
You cannot count guages, fuel system, ect into this as both blowers and turbos need them seperatly.
It can be had for under $4k and im doing Tubular headers in stainless to boot. That is all new parts nothing used, new procharger D1SC from lets say EPP
#ATI 1GJ204-SCI - ATI ProCharger D-1SC for 98-02 F body
This kit requires you to have custom tuning
Price: $6,019.99
Manufacturer: ProCharger (ATI)
This kit is without the injectors, and dampner pulley you would need so your still $2000 over a turbo new for the basics and the D1SC is maxed around 16psi where the tc78 has easily gone 20+psi.
Not trying to start a war here
but it CAN be done. Also kit is not homebuilt.
09-10-2009, 11:58 AM
#30
Dude!, are you freakin serious!? How are you even comparing a pieced together kit you fab up yourself with a brand new from a dealer complete s/c kit? Thats not fair at all man. Compare apples vs apples. I can buy everything new for a procharger setup separately and fab it up myself just like you have done with your turbo kit. How bout we compare a procharger kit from EPP to an APS or KYTP or OFI COMPLETE setup. I'm pretty sure the turbo route is going to cost more AND be more complicated simply because there are more parts to a turbo kit.
09-10-2009, 12:05 PM
#31
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Dude!, are you freakin serious!? How are you even comparing a pieced together kit you fab up yourself with a brand new from a dealer complete s/c kit? Thats not fair at all man. Compare apples vs apples. I can buy everything new for a procharger setup separately and fab it up myself just like you have done with your turbo kit. How bout we compare a procharger kit from EPP to an APS or KYTP or OFI COMPLETE setup. I'm pretty sure the turbo route is going to cost more AND be more complicated simply because there are more parts to a turbo kit.Also if you read the last thing I said in the last post, NOT A HOMEBUILT KIT.
LOL im all for both just stating if you do it right then it can be done cheaper through a company.
09-10-2009, 12:46 PM
#33
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Oh and I made a mistake it would have been like $4500 with the cold piping which I already had but still a great price as Josh likes to work with everyone on pricing and thier personal build.
09-10-2009, 02:14 PM
#35
These conversations always drift off topic.
I have never had a supercharger car but I did a bunch of reading before diving into my turbo build. The belt slip issues were a major turn off. The constant whistling sound coupled with the louder NA type exhaust also didn't appeal to me. Parasitic drag requires that the fuel system have atleast an additional 10% capacity. Add to all that the lack of boost control options and I was sold on the turbo.
Then you could always do a search for guys that have switched from one to the other and they are usually going from blower to turbo. It's rare to sdee someone going the other way.
A turbo system will always be more expensive unless you are creative and a bargain hunter and either have fab skills or have friends with fab skills. I built my entire turbo setup with 1000 rwhp capability for under $5K. That includes the fuel system, hot side, cold side, IC, BOV, truck manifolds, flanges, raw materials, WG, and turbo. I didn't pay a penny for fab work but I also didn't cut corners on materials or quality of components.
As for leaving hard, I was carrying the wheels pretty good on mine with a bonestock LONG block LQ9. Ran a 6.32 @ 109.5 in the eight with a 1.38 60'. I am currently in search of a bare block to build a forged bottom end and turn it up to full blast. Hoping for high 8's.
I have never had a supercharger car but I did a bunch of reading before diving into my turbo build. The belt slip issues were a major turn off. The constant whistling sound coupled with the louder NA type exhaust also didn't appeal to me. Parasitic drag requires that the fuel system have atleast an additional 10% capacity. Add to all that the lack of boost control options and I was sold on the turbo.
Then you could always do a search for guys that have switched from one to the other and they are usually going from blower to turbo. It's rare to sdee someone going the other way.
A turbo system will always be more expensive unless you are creative and a bargain hunter and either have fab skills or have friends with fab skills. I built my entire turbo setup with 1000 rwhp capability for under $5K. That includes the fuel system, hot side, cold side, IC, BOV, truck manifolds, flanges, raw materials, WG, and turbo. I didn't pay a penny for fab work but I also didn't cut corners on materials or quality of components.
As for leaving hard, I was carrying the wheels pretty good on mine with a bonestock LONG block LQ9. Ran a 6.32 @ 109.5 in the eight with a 1.38 60'. I am currently in search of a bare block to build a forged bottom end and turn it up to full blast. Hoping for high 8's.
. 
09-11-2009, 02:31 PM
#38
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i went with s/c for a low boost daily driver but if i were going ALL out 1200rwhp i would have done turbo
turbos are more money to setup properly i dont care what everyone says they are!!!! ive had 3 and done custom kits on 4 vipers so....
s/c work fine in low boost situations 5-12psi anything above that turbo is the way to go
as for production cars using superchargers the dare dz, the ssc koegnissig (wat ever i cant spell), the paxton shelbys, the cobra twin supercharged from shelby, and the g ladder series of VW's... im sure there are more but these are off the top of my head
heres one that will mess with your head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aSR5...layer_embedded
turbos are more money to setup properly i dont care what everyone says they are!!!! ive had 3 and done custom kits on 4 vipers so....
s/c work fine in low boost situations 5-12psi anything above that turbo is the way to go
as for production cars using superchargers the dare dz, the ssc koegnissig (wat ever i cant spell), the paxton shelbys, the cobra twin supercharged from shelby, and the g ladder series of VW's... im sure there are more but these are off the top of my head
heres one that will mess with your head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aSR5...layer_embedded
09-11-2009, 04:32 PM
#40
