Ok, supercharger or turbo... lets here what you like more on the LS1
09-08-2009, 01:24 PM
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Ok, supercharger or turbo... lets here what you like more on the LS1 alright, like the tittle says, what do you perfer?
I just bought this 2001 TransAm, has an exaust on it.. free ram air.. wich i plan to get rid of for a ws6 hood/ram air intake system. And im wondering what to do.. not made of money but can save up, get what i want soon.
I own a 99 mitsu eclipse with a fully built 420A engine, running 400 HP + NOS, has a turbonetics T3/T4 on it, its fun and all, but i was thinking about running a supercharger on the LS1, get some power down low, get it up on 2 wheels, that sort of thing, didnt think a car with all the power on the top end would be able to do that.
Things to consider:
Traction off the line (street drag)
Cost
man power
supported mods (6-10 PSI)
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer
Thanks,
Ian
I just bought this 2001 TransAm, has an exaust on it.. free ram air.. wich i plan to get rid of for a ws6 hood/ram air intake system. And im wondering what to do.. not made of money but can save up, get what i want soon.
I own a 99 mitsu eclipse with a fully built 420A engine, running 400 HP + NOS, has a turbonetics T3/T4 on it, its fun and all, but i was thinking about running a supercharger on the LS1, get some power down low, get it up on 2 wheels, that sort of thing, didnt think a car with all the power on the top end would be able to do that.
Things to consider:
Traction off the line (street drag)
Cost
man power
supported mods (6-10 PSI)
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer
Thanks,
Ian
09-08-2009, 02:05 PM
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Truck manifold kits are the cheapest turbo kits you will find, unless you find a supercharger for 4k then turbo could be cheaper. Most new blower kits are in the 5k+ range which is insane if you dont have money.
Traction depends on how fast the boost ramps in, blower might hit harder.
Manpower is the same if they are both kits.
Supported mods, clutch or converter/good auto trans. Strong rear if you plan on launching it at all.
Procharger/Vortech or Josh at KYTP.
Turbo is more efficient I think.
Do a search plenty of info all around.
Traction depends on how fast the boost ramps in, blower might hit harder.
Manpower is the same if they are both kits.
Supported mods, clutch or converter/good auto trans. Strong rear if you plan on launching it at all.
Procharger/Vortech or Josh at KYTP.
Turbo is more efficient I think.
Do a search plenty of info all around.
09-08-2009, 02:07 PM
#3
Free ram air is more effective than the WS6 hood ram air, and can be ran in conjunction. Of course, both are moot if you go FI. If you are doing it on the stock motor, I say blower simply because it is more predictable to tune and boost is pretty much set. However, I'd like go to with a 80mm turbo someday.
09-08-2009, 07:38 PM
#4
lots of turbo vs supercharger threads in here man. Not tryin to be an ***, but do a search. You will get plenty of others opinions for you to come to your own conclusion. Here is one of the recent threads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...rger-help.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...rger-help.html
09-08-2009, 10:08 PM
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turbo/supercharger Yea, I hear ya, read that thread actually, just seemed like people werent "focused". very shotgun style questions, and scattered answers, which is why I have a little list for people to kinda follow, help get the info out there I and others might need. I want people to bring a compiled list of the things they did to the table, not just "15k, supercharger" as the answer... I know that.. want specifics thats all
Ian
Ian
09-08-2009, 10:11 PM
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ss Truck manifold kits are the cheapest turbo kits you will find, unless you find a supercharger for 4k then turbo could be cheaper. Most new blower kits are in the 5k+ range which is insane if you dont have money.
Traction depends on how fast the boost ramps in, blower might hit harder.
Manpower is the same if they are both kits.
Supported mods, clutch or converter/good auto trans. Strong rear if you plan on launching it at all.
Procharger/Vortech or Josh at KYTP.
Turbo is more efficient I think.
Do a search plenty of info all around.
Traction depends on how fast the boost ramps in, blower might hit harder.
Manpower is the same if they are both kits.
Supported mods, clutch or converter/good auto trans. Strong rear if you plan on launching it at all.
Procharger/Vortech or Josh at KYTP.
Turbo is more efficient I think.
Do a search plenty of info all around.
09-08-2009, 10:12 PM
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huh Free ram air is more effective than the WS6 hood ram air, and can be ran in conjunction. Of course, both are moot if you go FI. If you are doing it on the stock motor, I say blower simply because it is more predictable to tune and boost is pretty much set. However, I'd like go to with a 80mm turbo someday.
Thanks
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09-08-2009, 11:04 PM
#8
right now I dont have either but if i had a choice I would go with a turbo because its more adjustable and it seems like the power potential is greater. But with a turbo you'll scrap the headers(if you have them) and some people dont like double buying parts. IMO it seems like the turbo costs more and its a bigger more time consuming project considering the custom fitting.
Blower - it seems like procharger is the most common and with a sc you can keep all existing exhaust mods. Also with a turbo you'll most likely have to mod the radiator which cost money compared to a sc. A procharger only takes a weekend or less to install in the right hands. Either way you have to upgrade your drivetrain and fuel system.
At the end you can get a D1SC procharger and make 800+rwhp through a stalled auto and be happy with that level of power. Or you could get a 78 or 80mm turbo and make the same power and be able to turn it down if you wanted or turn it up if you dare.
Blower - it seems like procharger is the most common and with a sc you can keep all existing exhaust mods. Also with a turbo you'll most likely have to mod the radiator which cost money compared to a sc. A procharger only takes a weekend or less to install in the right hands. Either way you have to upgrade your drivetrain and fuel system.
At the end you can get a D1SC procharger and make 800+rwhp through a stalled auto and be happy with that level of power. Or you could get a 78 or 80mm turbo and make the same power and be able to turn it down if you wanted or turn it up if you dare.
09-09-2009, 12:04 AM
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right now I dont have either but if i had a choice I would go with a turbo because its more adjustable and it seems like the power potential is greater. But with a turbo you'll scrap the headers(if you have them) and some people dont like double buying parts. IMO it seems like the turbo costs more and its a bigger more time consuming project considering the custom fitting.
Blower - it seems like procharger is the most common and with a sc you can keep all existing exhaust mods. Also with a turbo you'll most likely have to mod the radiator which cost money compared to a sc. A procharger only takes a weekend or less to install in the right hands. Either way you have to upgrade your drivetrain and fuel system.
At the end you can get a D1SC procharger and make 800+rwhp through a stalled auto and be happy with that level of power. Or you could get a 78 or 80mm turbo and make the same power and be able to turn it down if you wanted or turn it up if you dare.
Blower - it seems like procharger is the most common and with a sc you can keep all existing exhaust mods. Also with a turbo you'll most likely have to mod the radiator which cost money compared to a sc. A procharger only takes a weekend or less to install in the right hands. Either way you have to upgrade your drivetrain and fuel system.
At the end you can get a D1SC procharger and make 800+rwhp through a stalled auto and be happy with that level of power. Or you could get a 78 or 80mm turbo and make the same power and be able to turn it down if you wanted or turn it up if you dare.
the best non-biased post I've read in a long time. Great point to look at. Turbo will end up costing more no matter what people say. I started out with the STS and ended up spending some money to modify a few things to "help efficiency"
I have since then moved to a front mount from KYTP and can't wait to get my car up and running... I've changed everything though... motor (forged 370) tranny (was T56, now th400 with 3200 stall) turbo location (was rear mount, now front mount) and *hopefully* the rear end when the bank allows (10bolt to 12 bolt with 2.73's in the back)
09-09-2009, 12:27 AM
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I havent had either but if i wasted the money on either, I would do a d1sc just for the pure maintenance free advantage that system carries. Once you have the kit installed with the 8 rib and super dampener (and it is installed correctly!) you can literally slap it on, tune it to 750rwhp and not have to worry about it. It seems from all of the threads i have read on this forum alone, turbos while they have a higher adjust-ability and power potential, they seem to have more gremlins at the start of the project and are reoccurring
09-09-2009, 03:34 AM
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Also though SC tend to beat up the motor a little more, if the rpm's are up, the boost is up. Vs a turbo, if the revs are up but your foot is not down then your prob not boosting= easyer on the motor. personal preferance is SC for mid HP or race app's, turbo for mid to hi HP daily driving app's. Im a SC guy by nature but im trying to talk myself into a 76mm frontmount on my DD right now lol
09-09-2009, 08:03 AM
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Well im in for turbo obviously im a little bias, but i'll tell you why.
Traction off the line (street drag):
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Cost/man power:
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
supported mods (6-10 PSI):
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
I know I have battled both sides here but for me on a street car superchargers eat up to much potential just to get moving, they are a constant drain on the gas tank and hammer on the motor and WILL effect drive ability every day. It wouldn't take long of shredding belts and slipping boost numbers for me to get tired of the maintenance.
Traction off the line (street drag):
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Cost/man power:
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
supported mods (6-10 PSI):
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
I know I have battled both sides here but for me on a street car superchargers eat up to much potential just to get moving, they are a constant drain on the gas tank and hammer on the motor and WILL effect drive ability every day. It wouldn't take long of shredding belts and slipping boost numbers for me to get tired of the maintenance.
09-09-2009, 09:13 AM
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nice Well im in for turbo obviously im a little bias, but i'll tell you why.
Traction off the line (street drag):
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Cost/man power:
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
supported mods (6-10 PSI):
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
I know I have battled both sides here but for me on a street car superchargers eat up to much potential just to get moving, they are a constant drain on the gas tank and hammer on the motor and WILL effect drive ability every day. It wouldn't take long of shredding belts and slipping boost numbers for me to get tired of the maintenance.
Traction off the line (street drag):
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Cost/man power:
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
supported mods (6-10 PSI):
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
I know I have battled both sides here but for me on a street car superchargers eat up to much potential just to get moving, they are a constant drain on the gas tank and hammer on the motor and WILL effect drive ability every day. It wouldn't take long of shredding belts and slipping boost numbers for me to get tired of the maintenance.
Ok, this brought alot of really good points up.. nice super slow. I didnt think about alot of this, hmm, maybe ill have another turbo car after all, was thinking about going SC but people bring up alot of good points. hmm..
Thanks,
Ian
09-09-2009, 10:46 AM
#18
Traction off the line (street drag):
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Both seem to benefit fine from this although there is a little more head room with a turbo as part throttle = less or no boost where as S/C rpm=boost. But in most street apps neither make much if any boost off the line, get a tire and get down the road.
Cost/man power:
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
This depends on your ability and how many friends you have. I put the two together because I think they are directly related. If you know some people or can weld then a turbo will be cheaper on the initial hit. If you have to pay for fab work then you are better off getting a S/C kit. Although you should really think about whether you want initial cost to determine what type of FI you go for as both types have a continuous cost curve.
S/C: head unit, mounting bracket, BPV, IC, puleys, piping for cold side...
Turbo: head unit, hot AND cold side piping with mounting flanges, wastegate, BOV, IC, oil lines/ pump, boost controller...
Yes, there are small items missing off each list, but I could go on and on all day on this. NO WAY, NO HOW does a turbo setup have less parts than a supercharger, and none of the parts are cheaper in either setup. More parts = more money, I don't care how you slice it!
supported mods (6-10 PSI):
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
This changes for HP level more than boost level, a turbo almost always makes more power to the wheels at the same boost level as a supercharger because it has less parasitic loss, basically its free HP. Either way you are looking at fuel pump and injectors and valve springs at a min.
company of the turbo/supercharger and type you perfer:
D1sc seems to be the norm around here and turbos seem to be custom for the most part although there is a shop working on a turbo kit right now that seems to be very cost efficient, dont think its quite mass production yet, look in the FI threads you'll find the post about it.
I know I have battled both sides here but for me on a street car superchargers eat up to much potential just to get moving, they are a constant drain on the gas tank and hammer on the motor and WILL effect drive ability every day. It wouldn't take long of shredding belts and slipping boost numbers for me to get tired of the maintenance.
Again, its all up to each individual to decide whats best for them, but IMO a procharger setup is dead reliable, VERY simple compared to a turbo, and proven time and time again. The only maintenence I've done to my car has had nothing to do with the supercharger setup itself, its all in supporting the HP. Guess what.. You will get that with a turbo setup too, or N2O for that matter, or ANYTHING that makes big HP.
09-09-2009, 11:20 AM
#19
100% your opinion there. What you consider "too much" I would consider not even remotely noticeable. I highly doubt you can feel the power a S/C setup is taking away to get moving. Gas mileage shouldnt be a huge area of concern if you are wanting to build up a FI setup. But gas mileage from a SC won't at all be "bad". I was getting 20mpg while making ~700rwhp or so. Maybe a turbo woould have got me 23 at the same power level? Is that worth the extra headaches and complexity of a turbo? Not to me. The whole belt shredding issue is an easy fix. Get an 8 rib pulley setup and you will be fine. Ive only shredded one belt with my 8 rib setup and it was 100% my fault because I forgot to tighten the belt.
Again, its all up to each individual to decide whats best for them, but IMO a procharger setup is dead reliable, VERY simple compared to a turbo, and proven time and time again. The only maintenence I've done to my car has had nothing to do with the supercharger setup itself, its all in supporting the HP. Guess what.. You will get that with a turbo setup too, or N2O for that matter, or ANYTHING that makes big HP.
Again, its all up to each individual to decide whats best for them, but IMO a procharger setup is dead reliable, VERY simple compared to a turbo, and proven time and time again. The only maintenence I've done to my car has had nothing to do with the supercharger setup itself, its all in supporting the HP. Guess what.. You will get that with a turbo setup too, or N2O for that matter, or ANYTHING that makes big HP.
This is why I made the choice of a Procharger. I have known Chad almost 5yrs now & neither Procharger kit itself ever gave him a problem. Like he stated it was other parts not up to supporting the power at the time & his one belt mishap. Thats a good enough track record with a product to sell me on it. Along with all the other members running them without issues.
I'd do a turbo build if it was a weekend only car & I was shooting for really high HP without as much boost. But otherwise my vote goes to a SC especially for a DD.
09-09-2009, 11:33 AM
#20
Launching!
I'm in about the same boat as you Ian. I have a turbo 6g72 eclipse GT and while it eats up about every NA V8 I've come across, it just doesn't touch boosted V8s. In my book there really isn't a comparison, turbo all the way. I keep reading about people crying over the lack of engine bay space to mount turbos but compared to my eclipse it looks like a walk in the park. The truck manifold setup is what I plan on doing once I find the right f body.
