Just curious on a budget build for lots of boost. Everyones opinion of "budget" is different. Most seem to think of it as running stock parts that are not meant for boost to cut corners. My idea of "budget" is doing everything right, swapping all the parts that are maybe's at best for holding up to power and boost all while going a money efficient route by going with an LQ setup.

Keeping the above criterea in mind, what all would be needed to take my LS1 (from the 98 Formula in my sig) and convert it to handling a 76mm turbo and LOTS of boost, all while utilizing the LQ4 setup for budget purposes?

I know they are LS6 style heads and the larger 370 ci should allow for more displacement while running the lower/safer CR. But past that I don't know a whole lot.

What all would be needed? What would it cost part wise?

 

Stock cranks will hold quite a bit of power. Upwards of 1000. I would at least use a Callies crank and rods, Wiseco or Diamond pistons, a good high volume oil pump (LS4 stock pump or Mellings high volume), ACL bearings, Hellfire rings, ARP studs (L19's are the best). If you use a stock head, you will have a thinner deck and risk lifting them when you get over 20psi boost. Some good aftermarket heads will have 20% thicker decks, lowering the risk of lifting the heads and blowing water.

Most of what I mentinoed above and with a new block, balanced and blueprinted, built by HKE, I have ~5500 in the total shortblock assy.

 

it seems like the whole key to how much boost is the tune. I've seen a 408 with AFR's(i think) make well over 1100 hp without pushing water. Fireball also makes over 1000 with a stock LS2 block and ran it to 7.99 before cracking a sleeve in the motor.

So basically a well put together motor and a hellified tuner = big RWHP and no problems

 

I don't agree the "whole" key. You just said AFR's. Those have thicker decks and will be more resistant to lifting. I will agree that you might be able to get away with more than 20psi, but if you detonate the least little bit, you're screwed. Of course that's where the "hellified" tuner comes into play.

 

I have an LS6 oil pump currently, and its pretty new (only about 5k on it). I would definatly go with different forged pistons, but what abou the block? Sorry for my lack of intellegence on this one, but would I be able to re-use my stock LS1 block, or is that when I'd need to step up?

What all from the LQ4 engine would I need exactly? Where is it the biggest money saver?

 

the only thing you would need for a LQ4 is..............well the LQ4.

your LS1 cant go to a 370, but could be a 383 with a stroker kit. A 370 is a LQ4/9 with a stock crank(mostly but could be upgraded to aftermarket for extra $), forged rods and pistons, and bored cylinders. The iron block will hold up to 1000hp and the heads will "probably" push water befor the iron block fails.

The biggest money saver in a 370 is reusing the stock crank, that saves about 1k for the cost of an aftermarket one. You could always build a forged 347 which uses your LS1 stock crank with forged rods and pistons also.

Some have gone well over a 1000rwhp with the aluminum block, though most use a LS2 instead because they said to be superior to the ls1 block but the LS1 will handle 800+rwhp with no problems.

 

Great info, and just what I was looking for. Thanks! I would just go the LQ4 route then, and probably just re-use my stock crank.

Any other info I might need to know or keep in mind?

 

Ben, I'd highly reccomend my exact long block, minus the forged crank. Get a lq4/9 and use the stock crank, block bored .030 over with Callies rods and Diamond or Wiseco pistons, ARP head and main studs, have Al port the 317 heads with an LS6 intake and TB, Inconel exhaust valves, stainless steel intake valves, Patriot extreme springs, etc etc and you are set!

But the block, crank, and heads that you have will work wonders for the power that you want. Blake is running a 98 LS1 block now.

I don't want to repeat anything that you already know, but feel free to give me a call if you've got any questions.

 

the 370 is a proven shortblock, but a couple people have explored the limits of the LS1 block. I want to put a 88mm turbo on a forged 347 for racing and see if it will hold over 1000hp.

 

Thanks for the info and input Nick. Just really tooling around trying to get ideas for when the Formula goes boom (hopefully this happens years and years from now).

You think my TSP 5.3 stage 2.5 heads would be good? I know they flow good, but they helped bumped the compression way up, and thats exactly what I would want to stay away from if I go boosted with it. I probably would just play it more safe and go the LQ4 route with a stock crank, then forge everything else and go from there.

Two more questions;

1. What is the difference between the LQ4 and the LQ9?

2. How much can you get the LQ4 for? And how much would it cost all said and done to buy all the parts for the motor to take big boost?

Ideally I'd want to run a 76ish sized turbo as high as it safely could still on pump gas with meth injection and a big FMIC. Maybe if the turbo had boost left in it after that, run race gas to see what it would do.

 

Totally understandable. It's never to early to start plannin the build, that way when it lets go, you'll know exactly what you want!

[quote]You think my TSP 5.3 stage 2.5 heads would be good? I know they flow good, but they helped bumped the compression way up, and thats exactly what I would want to stay away from if I go boosted with it. I probably would just play it more safe and go the LQ4 route with a stock crank, then forge everything else and go from there.[/quote

Only reason I'd stick with the TSP heads you have is if you wanted to save costs and stick witht the LS1, but it seems you are leaning the right way and have no problem going the LQx route, and in that case use the 317s. Blake used his heads off the 5.3 with his new LS1 build and even milled the heads down more to try and raise the compression to the 9.0 range (can't remember the cc of his heads or the cc of his pistons off top of my head).

Only diffrence between the 2 is the CR of the stock pistons. Everything wlse is the exact same. I have the number for a guy here in town that does nothing but buy and part out newer GM pickup trucks. If I remember correctly he said he could get me a long block in the $600 range. (I was thinking about putting a 6.0L in the Blazer )

A 76 is going to be just on the small size for a 364ci or 370ci. 78 to 81 would be best IMO. For what you want, I'd reccomend a Turbonetics TC 78 with a 1.15 divided turbine with an F1 wheel, 78mm inducer/108mm exducer. Biggest bonus is that it's not only relatively cheap, but it's also water cooled





As for prices, it really depends on how crazy you want to get with it, but you should have right around $5000 in a long block that'll take more than you could throw at it on pump gas! I'll PM you my motor build sheet.

Hopefully that helps

 

Thanks a ton Nick!

 

No problem

 

What do guys usually run for heads on an LQ setup? Does anyone just run the 317 heads unported? If I go this route, I already know the setup is very inexpensive, and thats they way I'd like to keep it. The Turbo in the boost friendly low CR forged environment will make plenty of power. I have no wishes to make this a 1000 RWHP car. I would be more than happy with 750-800 RWHP. Would this be attainable using the 317 heads un-ported, and just running an LS6 intake?

 

Lots of guys running stock 317s

 

running the stock 317's isnt really a problem unless your going for max effort or alot or power. Pressurizing the system will pretty much take care of the flow, and you'll probably be missing some horses but if your not racing it wont really matter much.

750-800 rwhp is no problem with the forged block and 317's since on a all stock LQ4 people are topping 600 and 650.

The cheap way is to buy a complete shortblock unless your doing the work yourself or know someone who does it cheap.

TSP's 370 starts a 2999.00:http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=683

with all the options like upgraded diamond pistons, steel top ring, callies rods, eagle forged crank and main studs you still come in shy of 4000.

 

lq4 is cheap if u use stock crank. I am using a stroker crank but you dont need that. Im using stock chain...oil pump....lifters...ebay cam...ls6 manifold.

 

You are running some great timess on a ebay cam. I want to do a 85mm turbo on a forged 347, super victor, 4150 tb, setup and see if I can go mid 8's in a 3400 pound car.

 

i paid PatrickG 25 bux to spec a cam...found one on ebay....at 700-800hp...cam choice is not a big deal. Pic a turbo that will make the power you want and pick the cam according to the idle/lope you want. Mightymouse did 800+ on a stock cam at one time