So after alot of deliberation I just cannot part with my 4th gen (as much as I like a c6). I want to build a 100% daily driver, and when I first got the car I always wanted a maggie, so here we go.

What I want/would like: high 500's-low 600ish (can I get 600 out of stockish ci's on cali pump gas?). First off is this doable in ca with our garbage 91( this is a would like)/at least 550(is a must have). 347/370/383 are whats floating around in my mind right now for cubic inches, maybe a set of afr's if they will get me where I need to be but Ide rather go with massaged 317 or 243's and save a few bucks.

A few Q's:
what are the disadvantages of going 370/383 over stock cubes as far as work involved? Or better yet, what would you use for my goals.

my stock block has 190k on it, is there any problem in reusing the block and getting some forged internals, and is an iron block lq9 necessary for the power levels I want? And is it worth the money for the power I want?

what compression do you guys recommend on ca pump gas? I was thinking 9.0-9.5 considering the fuel available at the pump.

Ill worry about the cam, injectors, and all the other odds and ends once I make a decision on the motor. Just looking for some insite from some of you guys that have been there done that before.

Thanks,
Jeff


*edit* I would rather stay away from meth due to the fact I do want to dd the car. How expensive is meth (reoccuring cost not equipment cost) how much "room" would that give me in comparison to my goals.

 

I Have A Stock Bottom End LS2, 364 Cubes. I'm Running A Maggie 112HH With A 2.8" Pulley, Thats 10LBS Of Boost. I Have The Stock Heads With A Comp Cam, Nice Lopey Idle, American Racing Headers 1 7/8" With Cats. 60LBS Fuel Injectors With the Stock Fuel Pump With A MSD Volt Booster. Runing 93 Octane And 100% Methonal Injection, Kicks In Above 5LBS. Running 4.10 Gears ANd Getting 19MPG On nThe Highway. Cranking Out 650HP / 640 Ft/Tq At The Crank And 525HP At The Wheels AWD.

 

^those are stout #'s! I think im gonna stick with ls1/6 platform, I dont think I need/want to deal with the reluctor wheel changes that go with a ls2 base build. I just dont see the need for it with what Im looking to achieve. But that does give a good idea on where I should be power wise. Did a bit more searching and am now leaning towards the 383, I think that is necessary if I want to get closer to that 600 mark, but I also think meth willl be needed to get there as well.

Any reco's on pistons, rings, rods? Or reference to setups along my goals that have achieved it already?

 

I had a Maggie on my C5 with Lingenfelter heads, and motor, long tubes, intake and high flow cats, B&B exhaust and found that it was difficult to make more than 520rwhp with my car. I tried changing cams to a bigger MS4 like 97ZMeGo did when he made 575 and I made less power than with the baby GT-7 lingenfelter cam. When I changed to the bigger cam, I put an 8" overdrive balancer on it and removed the cats and lost 10rwhp. Same dyno and comparable temps. I had dyno'd the car 3 separate times on that dyno before changing cams and always made within a few horsepower of 520. Keep in mind that the Trailblazer has HH rotors in his Maggie which will make more power. I don't see you ever making anywhere near 600. I sincerely hope I"m wrong for your sake though. I will tell you that regardless of what kind of power you make, you'll have great fun with the Maggie. I changed to a 403 Iron block and a YSi blower and made 911rwhp last time I dyno'd the car. That Maggie felt stronger in a way because of how hard it hit boost. If you absolutely want the #, put a 75shot dry through the MAF and it should make 600 to the wheels quite easily.

 

thanks, good info right there. Originally I was thinkin 550 ish as a goal, and when I saw 97Z's car I was thinking maybe it was doable. Kinda hard to get a ballpark since theres not as many people running a maggie, the 600 is more of a goal but the more I look into it, 500 is looking closer to realistic (which is fine). Thanks for the input guys.

Now Im looking more for recomendations on the shortblock

 

I've posted in a lot of these maggie build threads, but here's what I had on my 02 SS before I let it go:

TSP forged 347cuin block, Livernois Stage II heads 243 castings, Comp Cams blower grind cam with 226/234 .598/.599 lift on a 117 lsa (Speed Inc sells it as SC3 for cams), Kooks 1 7/8 headers with Magnaflow high flow cats, 3in exhaust with Hooker Aerochamber muffler, PTW 90mm tb, MP112 blower, Accel 44# injectors, Walbro 340 fuel pump with magnavolt boost-a-pump and a 2.9 pulley for 10psi. The car looked stock and sounded/acted only like it had some exhaust work done until I stepped into it and the blower started whining. With a Vengeance tune it put down 540rwhp and 550rwtq. With a meth shot it could have had more timing put in and gotten closer to 600 or with a Nitrous shot it would definitely put me over 600.

A 383 would put you closer to 600 with similar stuff, a 347 and maybe some different heads/cam combo too would be pretty close I think, 550 is pretty reachable. Good luck.

 

^thanks, I read your build thread pretty thouroghly to get an idea of what to expect. I have pretty much decided that the 383 is a must, now I have to decide if I want to run meth or not. You ran yours on pump gas correct? What comp where you running?

 

you got any vid>???

 

I got some vids of the car from dyno night, and someone else ran the camera, so I didn't get the screen shot of the graph. The printout I left with the car when I got traded it in for my Vette. Let me see what I can find. The ones i had were from behind, and one in front of the car that night.

Yes, I ran it on 91 or 92 whatever I could find at the pumps. The compression ratio started out stock, the heads were machined out for 72cc chambers and i used GM MLS gaskets I forgot what thickness.

 

I lowered the price on my Maggie setup if ur interested $3500

 

My friend that filmed this was holding the camera with one hand and using the other one to cover his ear; that blower whine was LOUD!!!!



This one is a little long, forward to 1:15 for the blower sound, the other stuff is the car idling waiting for the tuner and dyno operator to get it all setup.

 

Just to muddy the water a bit....I'm of the opinion that, if you're limited to an mp112, you don't have enough blower to fill a 383. It will run and run good, but not too much better than a 347. If the cost was the same for both motors, sure, go for the bigger one. Also, if you're inclined to strap on an mp122 or TVS, build the bigger one. What's not argueable is that, either way you go, it will make for a fun ride.

 

what are the differences between the 112/122. can I get a 112 and make it a 122? The rotating assembly for the 383 is on the way so that is whats going in.

 

I have a maggie in my Trans Am and I can tell you that 600 will be hard to hit in a 346 and with a 112 while staying emissions legal, if that's what your looking for. You're not going to find an emission legal camshaft anywhere. GMHTP just tried to do this and went with a bigger LS OEM cam (Zo6) to remain in compliance. They can't get you with a factory spec camshaft.

You're going to be leaving alot on the table with a 112 on a 383 also. The maggie is not as efficient at making the high boost numbers like a centrifugal. More boost just results in more heat negating what you're going after. Roots blowers max out pretty quickly

You do have some other options though...

-You could go meth or nitrous. But you will most likely oxidize and destroy the intercooler not to mention immediately void the warranty on the head unit.

-You could go E85. But your fuel demands will be through the roof. Not really worth it to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with my numbers. 6.5 lbs., the 112, the GT2-3, and a pretty conservative tune. I could get another 20 off the tune but I would be on the ragged edge. I'm also still on stock heads too.

The car can easily be daily driven, and the torque it makes is insane. Don't see many maggied F-bodies, and the wow factor and sound is cool, but in some ways I wish I would have gone with a vortech or a procharger. You have more room to grow in the future. I got used to the power easily and am currently looking for more. At this point I'm really looking at weight reduction, changing my gear ratios, and I may go with another camshaft and some ported/polished heads to squeeze a bit more out of it. But it's going to be tough.

 

emissions arent a concern for me, here in california it doesnt take much for you to not be smog legal anymore, Im way past that already. parts for the 383, I think if i want a shot at 600 it would have to be on a 122. If I go 112 Ill be happy with anything over 440/450. Anyone running a 122? what are going to be the differences between a 112/122?

 

The 122 has around 10% more potential than the 112. I've heard more, but that hasn't been my experience. You can spin it a little faster than the 112 (non HH) without heating things up too much. I've also read where some folks didn't think the 122 had the low end power of the 112. On a 383 with a 122, lack of low end pull won't be an issue. It ought to be at full boost inside of 2250 rpm. 500 tq under 2500 rpm will move your gen IV around like it weighs 1500lbs less.

A big cam won't do much other than sound good. The cam Joblo uses is a proven maggie friendly. The late model LS6 cam that I'm using is also good. Just remember that you have "X" amount of air that the maggie will pump. Going apesh!t on the cam and high dollar heads won't get you much more in the power dept. A big cam will make nice music and kill some low end, but won't get you a whole lot more on the top end.

Have you set your c/r yet? If that's still up it the air, I'd sure shoot for something in the 10 to 10.5 range. Your car will run better out of boost and get more fuel eco too. If you had all the boost you wanted available with a pulley swap, you could go lower on compression and up the boost. You don't have that option with the maggie. I know that sounds high for a boosted motor, but my LS3 with TVS is living just fine a 10.7 c/r and 9 psi.

I have a Snow boost cooler on mine that comes on intermittantly at a little under 5 psi and sprays full stream over 6psi. I spray WW fluild to keep things simple. Same tank and I have a light that tells me when it's low. A small nitrous shot cools it down a little more at the track and brings ET from 12.6 to 12.3. Not screaming fast, but not too bad for a 5000lb truck in the S TX heat and humidity.

If you can squeeze a few more bucks out of your budget, a TVS will give you all of the low end grunt that the MP blowers give, but will keep pulling hard until you let off. There aren't too many of them on the used market yet. Might catch someone upgrading from a 1900 to a 2300. For your 383, I'd sure recommend the 2300 though.

Magnuson had a program a while back where you could send them your 112 and they'd pull the blower off and mount a 122 in its place using your intercooler/intake manifold. Don't have any idea whether that program is still around. I don't believe there's any simple way to "make" a 112 into a 122 though.

 

is a cr over 10 safe on 91 octane? the cr is really whats confusing me. originally I was thinking 9.5-10 then thought that was too high for 91 octane, then I was thinking as low 8.5-9. now Im not sure. I understand My options as to how much boost I can run is limited, I was hopeing to get 8-10lbs out of whatever I run. I about to do some more research on the tvs', whres the best place to get more info on them.

 

I missed the part about the 91 octane. MY bad. You probably can't run 10.5 + without running into problems. My experience is with 93 octane. If you can't find info on the TVS blowers shoot me a PM. The guys I know that handle the stuff might not be sponsors. Don't want to run afoul of the rules here.

 

so now Im second guessing the 383, I think I would be better off with more bore than more stroke, like a 370. Ive found alot of info on the tvs blowers, but I would like to hear what you have to say about em. for now Im not ordering anything else til I figure this build out.

 

The mp112 and 122 are good to a point. They make low end power out the wazoo. The TVS units make the same low down pull, but don't give it up on the top end. They keep pulling until you decide to let off or shift. With either a 370 or 383, you're in TVS2300 territory. If someone says that you'd be better off with the 1900, they are trying to get rid of some excess inventory. A mild cam, good heads, LT's with free flowing exhaust, will get you well in excess of 600 at the wheels. Torque will be over 500 inside of 2500 rpm. It will wake up in the morning pulling hard. You'll like it!