Methanol + A/W Intercooler
11-16-2009, 11:19 AM
#1
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Methanol + A/W Intercooler Hi guys,
I'm trying to decide on my new set up
What do you guys think about High Compression + A/W Intercooler Using methanol (M5) as fuel.
it's 100% Drag race
What do you think guys?
I'm thinking
1.more Air Mass with the cold charge.
2.Can put way bigger turbo and spool it with no problem with the high compression.
This is what got me thinking
(Fast2300tbird) http://www.yellowbullet.com
I'm going to do some exparimenting with a a2w ic and methanol on my new setup.. I did a bunch of math not to long ago.. Basically with an Itercooler the accual air mass is increased greatly with the ic.. here is some of the math i did..
Engine - 140 cube ford with 85% ve @ 8500 rpm
this equals 289 cfm per revolution
atomospheric preasure of 14.7psi
preassure ratio- 2.35 (19.8 psig)
70% eff. turbo @ 2.35 P/R
70* ambient temps
The ideal temp increase would be 143.63*
Actual temp increase - 205.18
Temp increase + ambient = 275.18
Engine inlet temps would be 275.18*F this is creates a 1.69 Density ratio (D/R)
now with a 90% eff. a2w ic using 40* water temps
275.18*- 40*= 235.18 x .90 = 211.66
275.18 - 211.66= 63.52* engine inlet temp
With a 2.35 P/R and 63.52* inlet temp, the D/R is 2.09
cfm with no ic would be 1.69 x 289 = 488.41cfm = 34.4 lbs/min
cfm w/ this ic would be 2.09 x 289 = 604.01cfm = 42.5 lbs/min
I feel that an actual air mass change that large is hard to ignore.
I'm trying to decide on my new set up
What do you guys think about High Compression + A/W Intercooler Using methanol (M5) as fuel.
it's 100% Drag race
What do you think guys?
I'm thinking
1.more Air Mass with the cold charge.
2.Can put way bigger turbo and spool it with no problem with the high compression.
This is what got me thinking
(Fast2300tbird) http://www.yellowbullet.com
I'm going to do some exparimenting with a a2w ic and methanol on my new setup.. I did a bunch of math not to long ago.. Basically with an Itercooler the accual air mass is increased greatly with the ic.. here is some of the math i did..
Engine - 140 cube ford with 85% ve @ 8500 rpm
this equals 289 cfm per revolution
atomospheric preasure of 14.7psi
preassure ratio- 2.35 (19.8 psig)
70% eff. turbo @ 2.35 P/R
70* ambient temps
The ideal temp increase would be 143.63*
Actual temp increase - 205.18
Temp increase + ambient = 275.18
Engine inlet temps would be 275.18*F this is creates a 1.69 Density ratio (D/R)
now with a 90% eff. a2w ic using 40* water temps
275.18*- 40*= 235.18 x .90 = 211.66
275.18 - 211.66= 63.52* engine inlet temp
With a 2.35 P/R and 63.52* inlet temp, the D/R is 2.09
cfm with no ic would be 1.69 x 289 = 488.41cfm = 34.4 lbs/min
cfm w/ this ic would be 2.09 x 289 = 604.01cfm = 42.5 lbs/min
I feel that an actual air mass change that large is hard to ignore.
11-16-2009, 04:06 PM
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Good math.
Your right, it is hard to ignore, another 8LBs/MN of air is a lot of power, especially when you throw in the fact that your AFR and timing numbers will be much more flexible with a cooler IAT.
Regarding using methanol in that combo, the benefit is going to in the combustion chamber more so than in the IAT area, as that is already well in hand. But with all that nice dense air going into a 2.3L (SVO Engine?) your combustion temps might get pretty hot. The water/methanol will help to control this and that means you can run a nice efficient AFR and not rely on extra fuel to cool the combustion process. It also means that your timing can be whatever is optimal for that particular engine, without fear of detonation.
Now thats all nice theory, but the real world has a endless supply of curve *****. So specifics on the setup would be great.
Your right, it is hard to ignore, another 8LBs/MN of air is a lot of power, especially when you throw in the fact that your AFR and timing numbers will be much more flexible with a cooler IAT.
Regarding using methanol in that combo, the benefit is going to in the combustion chamber more so than in the IAT area, as that is already well in hand. But with all that nice dense air going into a 2.3L (SVO Engine?) your combustion temps might get pretty hot. The water/methanol will help to control this and that means you can run a nice efficient AFR and not rely on extra fuel to cool the combustion process. It also means that your timing can be whatever is optimal for that particular engine, without fear of detonation.
Now thats all nice theory, but the real world has a endless supply of curve *****. So specifics on the setup would be great.
11-16-2009, 04:35 PM
#5
it would cost a lot less to just put one or two extra injectors upstream of the tb and skip the intercooler.
on our wagon running race gas, no intercooler and no fuel thru the pre injectors we were seeing iat's as high as 240deg.
then we ran meth and turned on the pre injectors and our iat's droped all the way down into the 80's.
on our wagon running race gas, no intercooler and no fuel thru the pre injectors we were seeing iat's as high as 240deg.
then we ran meth and turned on the pre injectors and our iat's droped all the way down into the 80's.
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11-16-2009, 06:12 PM
#8
you sure about m5? isn't that stuff heavily oxygenated. might even have a little nitro methane in it? seems like it would be something to try if you were maxed out on your turbo but you will have plenty of turbo right? then there is the cost. bulk methanol is under $2/gallon. m5 is probably over $6, might be way over that.
11-17-2009, 03:17 PM
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^ I am betting an SVO based engine.
I agree that M1 is a more costeffective way to go. M5 also has lubricants in it that are not needed in a methanol injection system. Dont pay for what you dont use.
I agree that M1 is a more costeffective way to go. M5 also has lubricants in it that are not needed in a methanol injection system. Dont pay for what you dont use.
11-18-2009, 06:53 AM
#12
Also have you considered Dry Ice? i have seen a guys with a GTo use it in Oz. he was getting VERY low intake temps. dont think he was using any liquid in that setup but i think you could reduce the temps even further if you used meht in there to! Maybe you could cool the meth before you injected it do? that might help lower temps still further?.....
Chris.
11-18-2009, 04:17 PM
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I thought it was a 140 cube Ford?
One thing that's sort of counter-intuitive is that cooling the methanol does not do much. Its the change from liquid to gas that absorbs the heat, and the heating of the liquid previous to that does not seem to have much effect.
One thing that's sort of counter-intuitive is that cooling the methanol does not do much. Its the change from liquid to gas that absorbs the heat, and the heating of the liquid previous to that does not seem to have much effect.
