STS Concerns
yea there are some rear mounts making big power, and i never said they would not. but you take the same turbo and place it as close to the heat source as possible, with the least amount of piping for hot side and inter cooler. and the car will make more power and will make it sooner.
i have seen drift cars mount the inter cooler far back in the bumper to save a couple of feet of piping to maximize response.
i have seen drift cars mount the inter cooler far back in the bumper to save a couple of feet of piping to maximize response.
i have full boost by 3k. maybe even a little earlier. why would you want it to come in sooner? When you race someone do you race in 5th or 6th gear? Hell no you drop it down and have the rpms higher. I really could give a **** what you anti rear mount guys think. facts are the bitch works. dont care about gases escaping and what not. but for some one to get on here and say it just doesnt work when they are just going off what they think just is BS. Thinking something and experimenting is another. Like i said i wish you were closer so we could see just how your efficient machine does to mine. Power is power. i dont race at 2k rpms so if you have boost there congrads you should pull a trailer.
and if you think any of my statement are bullshit, please prove me wrong, till then they are not BS
i try to explain it to people that will end up reading this thread so they can see both pro's and con's pf both systems and make up their mind from there. i am not a turbo kit dealer, i am just a guy with a very expensive hobby
and turbo's do not necessarily spool by rpm
yea there are some rear mounts making big power, and i never said they would not. but you take the same turbo and place it as close to the heat source as possible, with the least amount of piping for hot side and inter cooler. and the car will make more power and will make it sooner.
i have seen drift cars mount the inter cooler far back in the bumper to save a couple of feet of piping to maximize response.
i have seen drift cars mount the inter cooler far back in the bumper to save a couple of feet of piping to maximize response.
I agree with alot of what you say but just because a turbo is closer to the heat source doesn't mean it will make more power. These debates about front mount vs rear mount get redundant, I rear mount isn't as efficient but neither is a supercharger, look at the parasitic loss of driving a supercharger. They sell a bunch and their customers are happy.
why do you think sts suggests that you not run long tubes and run the factory cast manifolds
and as far as your supercharger remark, people do not buy a supercharger because they do not care about efficiency, they buy it because it provides some strong points over a turbo set up (lag is one of them)
it seems like it is just you and me going back at each other and for some reason i keep pointlessly explain everything to you
just re read this whole thread and think about it for a bit yes a turbo that is closer to the heat source ( the motor ) will make more power and will make it sooner, the reason for that is because hot air expands and when it expands there is more of it. i am sure i have mentioned in one of my post's, you must of missed it
why do you think sts suggests that you not run long tubes and run the factory cast manifolds
and as far as your supercharger remark, people do not buy a supercharger because they do not care about efficiency, they buy it because it provides some strong points over a turbo set up (lag is one of them)
it seems like it is just you and me going back at each other and for some reason i keep pointlessly explain everything to you just re read this whole thread and think about it for a bit
why do you think sts suggests that you not run long tubes and run the factory cast manifolds
and as far as your supercharger remark, people do not buy a supercharger because they do not care about efficiency, they buy it because it provides some strong points over a turbo set up (lag is one of them)
it seems like it is just you and me going back at each other and for some reason i keep pointlessly explain everything to you
just re read this whole thread and think about it for a bitI've acknowledged many times in this thread your statements as being correct, I disagree with one of them and you become upset. It's funny in 99/00 I had a turbotech kit on my car and the big debate was that Dave Inall from Incon was building a twin kit and how a twin was so much better than a single, well 10yrs and it's been proven you can screw up either and both have their place.
Last edited by mike13; Feb 3, 2010 at 08:57 AM.
elias799 I hear you and I'm paying attention, I think you have alot to say. You don't need to get fustrated at me, I think you have the opinion that I'm not validating your expertise or trying to attack your posts. Not true at all, I appreciate that you bring knowledge to this discussion.
hmm..turbo's mounted at the front will make more power than a turbo at the back.... guess i'll just turn up my boost ... problem solved. .. and headers vs. manifolds, yes manifolds hold in heat but the tubing size of the headers are larger diameter. Exhaust gases expanding blab la bla,... The exiting exhaust velocity in the headers is slower compared to the smaller diameter pipes of manifolds. Like putting a thumb over the end of a garden hose
.. and headers vs. manifolds, yes manifolds hold in heat but the tubing size of the headers are larger diameter. Exhaust gases expanding blab la bla,... The exiting exhaust velocity in the headers is slower compared to the smaller diameter pipes of manifolds. Like putting a thumb over the end of a garden hose LS1 Tech Stories
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Verdad Gallardo you need to learn how to read. when did i ever say a rear mount set up does not work ?
and if you think any of my statement are bullshit, please prove me wrong, till then they are not BS
i try to explain it to people that will end up reading this thread so they can see both pro's and con's pf both systems and make up their mind from there. i am not a turbo kit dealer, i am just a guy with a very expensive hobby
and turbo's do not necessarily spool by rpm
and if you think any of my statement are bullshit, please prove me wrong, till then they are not BS
i try to explain it to people that will end up reading this thread so they can see both pro's and con's pf both systems and make up their mind from there. i am not a turbo kit dealer, i am just a guy with a very expensive hobby
and turbo's do not necessarily spool by rpm
hmm..turbo's mounted at the front will make more power than a turbo at the back.... guess i'll just turn up my boost ... problem solved. .. and headers vs. manifolds, yes manifolds hold in heat but the tubing size of the headers are larger diameter. Exhaust gases expanding blab la bla,... The exiting exhaust velocity in the headers is slower compared to the smaller diameter pipes of manifolds. Like putting a thumb over the end of a garden hose
.. and headers vs. manifolds, yes manifolds hold in heat but the tubing size of the headers are larger diameter. Exhaust gases expanding blab la bla,... The exiting exhaust velocity in the headers is slower compared to the smaller diameter pipes of manifolds. Like putting a thumb over the end of a garden hosehaving a restrictive exhaust ( thumb over the hose ) will create allot of back pressure and the motor does not like that
ok well you tell me whats wrong with one since you know everything about them even though you havent owned one. i want to hear what it is.and you said a turbo up front will make more power and spool quicker. Well paul major has proved you wrong on the power. and i LREdy told you how soon i have full boost. just like i said before. why the hell would you want boost at 2k. then your mileage will go to hell.
i want boost to some on as early as possible and climb all the way to the 6000rpm red line without falling off. when you have a low CR motor the car does not feel very strong when it is off boost, so you want the boost to some on as quick as it can, to me the car is much more fun to drive like that.
Elias799 validates my point about theory vs experience, he is correct you would want or be able to have your car build boost as early as possible as long at it didn't affect high rpm breathing, a front mount should be better all things being equal. Experience says that since I'm running a high stall convertor it doesn't need to build boost as low in the rpm.
Is elias799 right? Yes but it's something that should be compensated for when putting together a combination. Also I think Paul Major uses rear mount turbos for both weight and packaging, those are some big tubes and turbos to try and have in the engine compartment. elias799 brings up some good points in theory but many of them are compensated for just like in any build, turbo, supercharger, na, nitrous.
Don't attack him most of the time he's onto something, just decide if that affects your build or not.
Is elias799 right? Yes but it's something that should be compensated for when putting together a combination. Also I think Paul Major uses rear mount turbos for both weight and packaging, those are some big tubes and turbos to try and have in the engine compartment. elias799 brings up some good points in theory but many of them are compensated for just like in any build, turbo, supercharger, na, nitrous.
Don't attack him most of the time he's onto something, just decide if that affects your build or not.
sts I agree with elias_799 also, I have yet to see, hear a 1k rwhp rearmount STREET CAR Thats the reason im going front mount more power for a street/mile / hiway killer car. Im not saying 800+ hp is not enough for a street car, But im looking for moer power and iit will be more simple to do a front mount to support it. I think the hihest hp i seen out a rearmount was jared lmr rearmount car it did like 840+ through a stalled auto and nine inch, and I made 813 hp thats it.
Last edited by Casey2323; Feb 3, 2010 at 02:30 PM.
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yes a turbo that is closer to the heat source ( the motor ) will make more power and will make it sooner, the reason for that is because hot air expands and when it expands there is more of it. i am sure i have mentioned in one of my post's, you must of missed it
HOT air!! LOL Think about that for a sec, when it comes to moving something whats better? something light and thin or some thing heavy and thick? Cold air is heavy and thick. Will do more work to move the turbo then hot thin air. Hot air does expand, but is also much thinner. Think about how your engine makes power in the cylinders.... is hot thin air better to make power or cold dense air?????? Intercoolers make more power why?
and as far as your supercharger remark, people do not buy a supercharger because they do not care about efficiency, they buy it because it provides some strong points over a turbo set up (lag is one of them)
Supercharger lag issue, its how the system is built... you can always control lag to some point. Depending on the type of supercharger, they also have lag. Roots type of chargers have less lag, but run out faster. turbochargers types lag more but pull all the way to the read line.
it seems like it is just you and me going back at each other and for some reason i keep pointlessly explain everything to you just re read this whole thread and think about it for a bit
HOT air!! LOL Think about that for a sec, when it comes to moving something whats better? something light and thin or some thing heavy and thick? Cold air is heavy and thick. Will do more work to move the turbo then hot thin air. Hot air does expand, but is also much thinner. Think about how your engine makes power in the cylinders.... is hot thin air better to make power or cold dense air?????? Intercoolers make more power why?
and as far as your supercharger remark, people do not buy a supercharger because they do not care about efficiency, they buy it because it provides some strong points over a turbo set up (lag is one of them)
Supercharger lag issue, its how the system is built... you can always control lag to some point. Depending on the type of supercharger, they also have lag. Roots type of chargers have less lag, but run out faster. turbochargers types lag more but pull all the way to the read line.
it seems like it is just you and me going back at each other and for some reason i keep pointlessly explain everything to you
just re read this whole thread and think about it for a bit I've done alot of thought as well LOL Last edited by Moreboost; Feb 3, 2010 at 02:35 PM.
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Sorry Jenn, Its all good everyone has there options and its all good... I think you'll love the STS it really does have its benefits....I have a trick if your interested PM me.
Its always better to have options and not LOL.
Its always better to have options and not LOL.
I don't understand how anybody can argue against physics in these rear mount vs front mount discussions. Front mounts will always be capable of more power on a given turbo, are more efficient, and will spool faster with everything else being the same. No, that doesn't mean that rear mounts don't work and it doesn't put an artificial ceiling on power numbers.
Oh yea, this chase3 guy is annoying with his false information.
Oh yea, this chase3 guy is annoying with his false information.
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I can make 900 on any dyno you can strap me on... I made mid 877 on 16psi and pump gas... This is with a 29.5" tire with 3.73 gear,4l80 with the converter unlocked.. btw... its in a fullsize truck 4525lbs that pass was on 875hp or so... but its slow... out of the gate 1.60 .60 foots ... I am going to re dyno this week on a mustang dyno... doing to ditch the pump gas and turn off the meth... and I will post up my 1000hp info ...
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From: Honolulu, HI
I don't understand how anybody can argue against physics in these rear mount vs front mount discussions. Front mounts will always be capable of more power on a given turbo, are more efficient, and will spool faster with everything else being the same. No, that doesn't mean that rear mounts don't work and it doesn't put an artificial ceiling on power numbers.
Oh yea, this chase3 guy is annoying with his false information.
Oh yea, this chase3 guy is annoying with his false information.