anyone else run pre-turbo meth injection
03-09-2010, 12:07 AM
#21
okay so let me ask a chem question. Is the vaporized meth still able to corrode aluminum?
Now for a numbers question if that last one is a no, what would the dimensions for the pipe and distance from the IC be for the meth to completely vaporize and be harmless?
Ok now if it is yes how long would it take for the vaporized meth to corrode aluminum seeing at most people would only be subjecting it to meth when they are over 5#'s for 30 minutes a day? Go ahead and speculate for me I am just curious.
Now for a numbers question if that last one is a no, what would the dimensions for the pipe and distance from the IC be for the meth to completely vaporize and be harmless?
Ok now if it is yes how long would it take for the vaporized meth to corrode aluminum seeing at most people would only be subjecting it to meth when they are over 5#'s for 30 minutes a day? Go ahead and speculate for me I am just curious.
03-09-2010, 06:46 AM
#22
03-09-2010, 09:45 AM
#24
Why would you want it vaporized......would it still act as a secondary fuel supply raising octane if it is vaporized?
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
03-09-2010, 11:58 AM
#25
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would you want it vaporized......would it still act as a secondary fuel supply raising octane if it is vaporized?
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
Last edited by The Beast; 03-09-2010 at 12:09 PM.
03-09-2010, 12:39 PM
#28
^^^^ no i have not personally seen it. it is just an assumption. my motor has very low CR so i do no need to use it.
i am not going off what "he said she said" kind of stuff, i am going off what i personally know will corrode aluminum
but if people say that they have ran it for 5 years without an issue i will not argue that.
if you let aluminum soak in methanol, it will corrode
i am not going off what "he said she said" kind of stuff, i am going off what i personally know will corrode aluminum
but if people say that they have ran it for 5 years without an issue i will not argue that.
if you let aluminum soak in methanol, it will corrode
Anybody curious about nozzle placement, check the link I posted a while back towards the beginning of the thread.
03-09-2010, 12:52 PM
#29
Forgot all about that site.
a couple highlights
3. Post Intercooler Injection
Post intercooler injection technically refers to injection anywhere after the intercooler. However, in this discussion we are specifically taking about post intercooler injection which takes place directly after the air-to-air intercooler on an application which has a considerably lengthy discharge tubes as shown in the picture above.
Here the user has numerous locations and plenty of space available to inject after the intercooler. Often times users will believe by placing the nozzle further away from the intake of the engine, they will have better atomization, better charge cooling and ultimately better performance. In a case like the engine above, placing the nozzles directly after the intercoolers is not as desirable as placing them directly inches away front of the throttle body or carburetor, as this is excessively further away then needed.
While this will result in a well atomized, cool air charge entering into the intake manifold. Much of the water methanol injection would have already evaporated leaving little injection available for internal cylinder cooling, added detonation control and reduced EGT's. Additionally, In some case's the air charge can actually begin to heat back up due to excessively long discharge pipes being routed around hot radiator, turbocharger, hot pipes and exhaust.
Location of the mass air meter and IAT or ACT sensor location should always be considered. Never inject pre-mass air. Only in pre-turbocharger applications when done properly can one inject prior to the mass air.
4. Pre Throttle Body/Carburetor Injection
Positioning the water methanol injection nozzles or nozzles just before the throttle body or carburetor on turbocharged and centrifugal supercharger applications is by far the most common position and one of the most beneficial of all. Furthermore, most every application can easily be fitted in this manor. With injection taking place just before the throttle body/carburetor, inches before the intake of the engine, significant cylinder cooling and detonation suppression is achieved. Additionally, air charge temperatures are significantly reduced through the intake manifold.
Care should always be taken concerning adequate distribution. In many cases intake manifolds can have individual intake ports beginning right after the throttle body. In applications such as this, the nozzle need only be pulled back away from the throttle body 4-5 inches to ensure proper distribution between all intake ports and not feeding one more then others.
Many of our concerns are eliminated when injecting in this location such as injecting prior to the mass air meter, intercooler or being excessively to far away from the intake of the engine. With injection taking place right before the intake of the engine, the effects are maximized.
As already mentioned, positioning the water methanol injection nozzles or nozzles just before the throttle body or carburetor on turbocharged and centrifugal supercharger applications is by far the most common position and one of the most beneficial of all as it offer excellent air charge cooling and exceptionable detonation control and cylinder cooling.
7. Staggered Injection
Staggered injection involves combining pre-compressor injection with an additional secondary nozzle positioned further down the turbocharger or centrifugal supercharger, such as pre-throttle body/carburetor injection. By combining pre-compressor injection with pre-throttle body injection, were able to improve the efficiency of the compressor while dramatically reducing air charge temperatures at the compressor and again at the intake for a combined synergistic effect. Furthermore, the secondary nozzle provides the necessary cylinder cooling, detonation control, and reduced EGT's which the pre-turbocharger nozzles does not.
Best of all, installation remains essentially the same and costs are only marginally more as the addition of a secondary nozzle and tee fitting are all that is required. We highly recommend the staggered injection for all turbocharged applications and high boost centrifugal applications.
For complete details on Pre-compressor injection and Pre-Throttle Body/Carburetor injection these are listed above individually.
a couple highlights
3. Post Intercooler Injection
Post intercooler injection technically refers to injection anywhere after the intercooler. However, in this discussion we are specifically taking about post intercooler injection which takes place directly after the air-to-air intercooler on an application which has a considerably lengthy discharge tubes as shown in the picture above.
Here the user has numerous locations and plenty of space available to inject after the intercooler. Often times users will believe by placing the nozzle further away from the intake of the engine, they will have better atomization, better charge cooling and ultimately better performance. In a case like the engine above, placing the nozzles directly after the intercoolers is not as desirable as placing them directly inches away front of the throttle body or carburetor, as this is excessively further away then needed.
While this will result in a well atomized, cool air charge entering into the intake manifold. Much of the water methanol injection would have already evaporated leaving little injection available for internal cylinder cooling, added detonation control and reduced EGT's. Additionally, In some case's the air charge can actually begin to heat back up due to excessively long discharge pipes being routed around hot radiator, turbocharger, hot pipes and exhaust.
Location of the mass air meter and IAT or ACT sensor location should always be considered. Never inject pre-mass air. Only in pre-turbocharger applications when done properly can one inject prior to the mass air.
4. Pre Throttle Body/Carburetor Injection
Positioning the water methanol injection nozzles or nozzles just before the throttle body or carburetor on turbocharged and centrifugal supercharger applications is by far the most common position and one of the most beneficial of all. Furthermore, most every application can easily be fitted in this manor. With injection taking place just before the throttle body/carburetor, inches before the intake of the engine, significant cylinder cooling and detonation suppression is achieved. Additionally, air charge temperatures are significantly reduced through the intake manifold.
Care should always be taken concerning adequate distribution. In many cases intake manifolds can have individual intake ports beginning right after the throttle body. In applications such as this, the nozzle need only be pulled back away from the throttle body 4-5 inches to ensure proper distribution between all intake ports and not feeding one more then others.
Many of our concerns are eliminated when injecting in this location such as injecting prior to the mass air meter, intercooler or being excessively to far away from the intake of the engine. With injection taking place right before the intake of the engine, the effects are maximized.
As already mentioned, positioning the water methanol injection nozzles or nozzles just before the throttle body or carburetor on turbocharged and centrifugal supercharger applications is by far the most common position and one of the most beneficial of all as it offer excellent air charge cooling and exceptionable detonation control and cylinder cooling.
7. Staggered Injection
Staggered injection involves combining pre-compressor injection with an additional secondary nozzle positioned further down the turbocharger or centrifugal supercharger, such as pre-throttle body/carburetor injection. By combining pre-compressor injection with pre-throttle body injection, were able to improve the efficiency of the compressor while dramatically reducing air charge temperatures at the compressor and again at the intake for a combined synergistic effect. Furthermore, the secondary nozzle provides the necessary cylinder cooling, detonation control, and reduced EGT's which the pre-turbocharger nozzles does not.
Best of all, installation remains essentially the same and costs are only marginally more as the addition of a secondary nozzle and tee fitting are all that is required. We highly recommend the staggered injection for all turbocharged applications and high boost centrifugal applications.
For complete details on Pre-compressor injection and Pre-Throttle Body/Carburetor injection these are listed above individually.
03-09-2010, 01:08 PM
#30
Teching In
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would you want it vaporized......would it still act as a secondary fuel supply raising octane if it is vaporized?
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
Here is a nother concern of mine: It is 100*+ most of the summer where I live. I think my intake temps would be hotter if I ran pre turbo injection AND an A2A. So when I run an A2A with post injection, the air is cooled to near ambient with the IC, then the metahnol drops it below ambient after the IC.
03-09-2010, 01:09 PM
#31
Teching In
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-09-2010, 01:10 PM
#32
Teching In
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-09-2010, 06:35 PM
#35
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as long as your not running any intercooler pre turbo meth injection is great, otherwise it will build up in the intercooler and it will corrode.
one thing i an worried about is cylinder distribution with my large pre throttle body nozzle. does the ls3 cara manifold distribute the vapor evenly?
one thing i an worried about is cylinder distribution with my large pre throttle body nozzle. does the ls3 cara manifold distribute the vapor evenly?
03-09-2010, 07:17 PM
#37
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you may be fine but the only way to know for sure is to try it and then take your a/a intercooler off after a week and see if you have any pooling.
03-09-2010, 07:17 PM
#38
as long as your not running any intercooler pre turbo meth injection is great, otherwise it will build up in the intercooler and it will corrode.
one thing i an worried about is cylinder distribution with my large pre throttle body nozzle. does the ls3 cara manifold distribute the vapor evenly?
one thing i an worried about is cylinder distribution with my large pre throttle body nozzle. does the ls3 cara manifold distribute the vapor evenly?
Correct.
03-09-2010, 07:51 PM
#39
the heat in the compressor housing is what is causing the meth to vaporize. using an intercooler will cool the air down enough to form back into droplets.
you may be fine but the only way to know for sure is to try it and then take your a/a intercooler off after a week and see if you have any pooling.
you may be fine but the only way to know for sure is to try it and then take your a/a intercooler off after a week and see if you have any pooling.
03-09-2010, 07:59 PM
#40
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
even with pre turbo meth injection you are not going to get the air temp post compressor back down to ambient. If you add an air to air intercooler to the mix it will then bring the air charge alot closer to ambient which may allow the vaporized meth/water mix to condense in the intercooler. This is at least how i look at it, i have no experience with running pre turbo meth and an intercooler nor do i plan to.