12psi on a stock block?
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Germantown, MD
12psi on a stock block? I'm having belt slip issues. instead of bandaiding the problem and wasting money was thinking of getting an ASP cogs setup(after hearing how the initial buyers like theres). But ASP starts at 10psi and goes up to 20. So what about water/alky and a 12 psi pully. I was planning on getting water alky eventually anyways so it's not wasted money. But I don't know much about it. My understanding was water and fuel don't mix. Are people currently using this with some sort of hobbs switch?
Is 12psi + H2O/Alky on a stock block a mistake?
Any advice would be appreciated guys.
Mike
Is 12psi + H2O/Alky on a stock block a mistake?
Any advice would be appreciated guys.
Mike
Sure you can run 12psi on the stock motor but the question you have to ask your self is how long do you think it will last?. I dont use water and alky but rather just sraight denatured alky. Seems to be the best thing as far as cooling the intake charge and ascting as a anti-detonate. 
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Bellevue, Wa
well I will be darn close to that configuration here pretty soon.
I hope to hit only 10psi with the pulley combo I have but it may be more like 12 since I don't have intercoolers.
rob is running 11psi and making over 600rwhp and it's holding together so far on an engine with 120,000 miles no less.
before you go cogs you may want to see how well my setup works. I am using a pretty cool spring tensioner setup from sd-concepts. they have a 6 rib and 8 rib version. the guy is making 1300 hp in his procharged dodge charger with this setup so I think it should work pretty well
I hope to hit only 10psi with the pulley combo I have but it may be more like 12 since I don't have intercoolers.
rob is running 11psi and making over 600rwhp and it's holding together so far on an engine with 120,000 miles no less.
before you go cogs you may want to see how well my setup works. I am using a pretty cool spring tensioner setup from sd-concepts. they have a 6 rib and 8 rib version. the guy is making 1300 hp in his procharged dodge charger with this setup so I think it should work pretty well
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by Blackbird
rob is running 11psi and making over 600rwhp and it's holding together so far on an engine with 120,000 miles no less.
As far as longevity, well I have plans for a new block. but what with trying to buy a house I seriously doubt I'd have the cash to do both this year. So if the motor dies this year the Hawk will sit till next year when I can afford to do her right. So I'd like it to last at least a year, maybe two. Just till the new motor is done and ready to be installed.
I really don't fully understand how H2O/alky works. is it injected like N2O and used to cool everything down? Unless the alky is compressed how effective can it be in cooling? Just always thought water and fuel were bad.
As for spring loaded belt, I'm interested and had heard of it, but don't know too many people that use it. The less money I have to spend the better.
But it woiuld be nice to get this car solidly above the 500 rwhp mark and start making a run for the 10s.Mike
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Bellevue, Wa
yes I will be doing it on stock internals. and yes rob is doing it with stock internals with only upgrade to this point besides his turbo kit being valve springs.
water/alky is misted into the intake. the mix acts as a cooler, extra octane (so to speak) and fuel.
this in turn alows you to run more boost and timing without detonation.
works very well. so well in fact it will be my only method of "intercooling". I have an ATI head unit but I am piecing together everything else and not using their intercooler setup.
I think with an alky kit and sd's 6 rib spring tensioner setup you would meet your goals easily. Even without the alky you could do it if your only gunning for around 500rwhp.
water/alky is misted into the intake. the mix acts as a cooler, extra octane (so to speak) and fuel.
this in turn alows you to run more boost and timing without detonation.
works very well. so well in fact it will be my only method of "intercooling". I have an ATI head unit but I am piecing together everything else and not using their intercooler setup.
I think with an alky kit and sd's 6 rib spring tensioner setup you would meet your goals easily. Even without the alky you could do it if your only gunning for around 500rwhp.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Austin, TX
I think the stock shortblock can last for quite a while at 12psi. Mine has lasted about a year at 8-11psi, but I now have some pretty bad blowby. The rings are just not up to that much boost. I looked at the pistons and they are still fine.
As for alky/water, here is the basic deal.
The water evaporates in the charged air and removes some heat, which helps control ignition. Most of it is still around in the chamber on ignition and it robs some of the BTUs that you want to make power. In the end, you end up pretty much breaking even (after advancing timing). This is why people add alcohol to the mix. It is actually a fuel so it burns and does not rob as many BTUs on ignition.
In the case of pure methanol, you get a really nice effect. Methanol burns well at really rich ratios (something like 8:1 don't quote me). So you can add the methanol and get the chamber cooling effect of running rich without the negatives normally associated with running overly rich. Think of it as being able to run your motor at 9:1 without loosing the power that would normally be associated with that. So more fuel goes in, but with the same resultant A/F in the end.
As for alky/water, here is the basic deal.
The water evaporates in the charged air and removes some heat, which helps control ignition. Most of it is still around in the chamber on ignition and it robs some of the BTUs that you want to make power. In the end, you end up pretty much breaking even (after advancing timing). This is why people add alcohol to the mix. It is actually a fuel so it burns and does not rob as many BTUs on ignition.
In the case of pure methanol, you get a really nice effect. Methanol burns well at really rich ratios (something like 8:1 don't quote me). So you can add the methanol and get the chamber cooling effect of running rich without the negatives normally associated with running overly rich. Think of it as being able to run your motor at 9:1 without loosing the power that would normally be associated with that. So more fuel goes in, but with the same resultant A/F in the end.
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TECH Resident
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From: Phoenix, AZ
I'm currently running 10psi and water alky, no problems. I dynoed at 11psi and water/alky, #'s in sig. My next dyno session will be to remove all water and go straight denatured. Oh yea, and I'm stock all the way around ( internal/external ).
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Originally Posted by BIGBOS
Just plan for a motor in the future, thats all I can say......
Kyle
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
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From: Bellevue, Wa
well my plan is the first sign of blow by I pulley down for less boost. the motor is at 67K and I want 100-120K out of it before I rebuild.
it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't make it but it's one of my goals for the car.
if it does go, oh well.... it won't cost that much to get back on the road with a forged setup since my buddy and I can build the motor.
it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't make it but it's one of my goals for the car.
if it does go, oh well.... it won't cost that much to get back on the road with a forged setup since my buddy and I can build the motor.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Germantown, MD
Anyone have pics of the water/alky system? Curious where you guys are mounting it, where the mister is install, how easy it is to monitor the fluid container? I'm curious about stuff like that
Any pics or advice, including price and where to get it would be appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Mike
Any pics or advice, including price and where to get it would be appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Mike
