Best timing chain for FI
04-12-2010, 07:34 PM
#22
Rather then 2 people arguing their opinions. I'd still like to hear from someone that uses a double roller or katech chain on a very high HP motor... and by high horsepower i don't want to hear from you 700rwhp people. That's not high hp that's stock chain HP. i wanna hear whats in the 1500+ rwhp cars
04-12-2010, 08:38 PM
#24
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I don't recall comparing a low quality double row to a good single like the C5R to make my point. Some of the better quality doubles have failed. Again the C5R has not. It's really hard to argue that as i have said over and over.
Lets step away from the racing envirmonent for a moment. Even as brutal as it can be you are still not leaving anything, especially timing chains in service for more than a year max(most are changed out much more often). Now in a high hp street car we are all looking to get the most power but have long term durability. Here several high end doubles have failed while the C5R has not.
My thoughts are this, you can only make something so strong for the intended application and anticipated stresses. Adding more material can help, but only to a point.
Lets step away from the racing envirmonent for a moment. Even as brutal as it can be you are still not leaving anything, especially timing chains in service for more than a year max(most are changed out much more often). Now in a high hp street car we are all looking to get the most power but have long term durability. Here several high end doubles have failed while the C5R has not.
My thoughts are this, you can only make something so strong for the intended application and anticipated stresses. Adding more material can help, but only to a point.
04-12-2010, 08:57 PM
#25
kissmyss- I dont think you will see too many 1500+rwhp street cars. Thats what we are discussing here. Not really relevant to the op or any of us for that matter. I would be curious to see as well, but 99% of people here will never see this kind of HP.
04-12-2010, 09:27 PM
#26
well then there's no point to the thread. stock LS2 chains can probably hold 1000rwhp. idk of any breaking. only ones i've heard that have broke were rollmaster double rollers
04-12-2010, 09:38 PM
#27
Hmm when is started researching timing chains for my build I am sure read even on here on search of ls2 chains that were breaking and not at that high power levels and pretty sure that was why went to double roller.
I would try more searching for breaking ls2 chains on this forum or on google.
You might start finding some. Now if c5R chain is a lot stronger then that might be good single option and does it bolt right in? If so great. I am not overly worried about my double roller and at least these engines are not interference like my talons .When you lose a timing belt in those pistons kiss valves.
I would try more searching for breaking ls2 chains on this forum or on google.
You might start finding some. Now if c5R chain is a lot stronger then that might be good single option and does it bolt right in? If so great. I am not overly worried about my double roller and at least these engines are not interference like my talons .When you lose a timing belt in those pistons kiss valves.
04-13-2010, 12:45 AM
#29
Actually many LS2 chains broke in applications that had stock hp ratings. It was hit and miss but it has been talked about at length and very well documented on the various vette forums. Regardless there is a point to what we are talking about, it's longevity. Those of us with street cars need this **** to last. If the Ls2 chain was sufficient Katech would be using it in the high output applications. They have no problem shimming oil pumps to accomodate a double. But they don't. People hate to admit that a single can be just as strong and in many cases stronger than a double. Its the syndrome many car guys have using ARP everything in a 400hp motor. Its a waste of money and doesnt make any sense from an engineers perspective. Yet people "believe" and are "convinced" they have to use the stuff. In a 1000rwhp motor, yes, a 400hp motor hell no.
04-13-2010, 01:04 AM
#30
Less stretch and more accurate cam timing with a double roller. Most 1000+ hp guys will run a double roller or a belt drive... not a single or a Katech chain. Not saying that the Katech chain isn't badass, but i really hope you're not saying that 2 katech chains (double) vs 1 katech chain (single) isn't any stronger. plus with most double roller kits, you get cam timing adjustability and new billet timing gears.
Last edited by bigsticksupra; 04-13-2010 at 01:17 AM.
04-18-2010, 07:28 PM
#33
04-18-2010, 10:33 PM
#34
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^^^^ bull **** !!!! but nice try, somebody that does not have a head on their shoulders would actually believe that. people have broken ls2 chains with just stronger springs.
and even if you do have a 1000whp car and by some miracle it lasted on the dyno pull, you are a complete moron. why would you risk a 20000 dollar motor with a **** chain ?
also i would love to see a dyno sheet of your car or at least a picture of the engine bay, i personally do not think you have a 1000whp car and you are bluffing
katech chain is not an ls2 chain, it is made different, just because it fits ls2 sprockets does not make it exactly the same as an ls2 chain
and even if you do have a 1000whp car and by some miracle it lasted on the dyno pull, you are a complete moron. why would you risk a 20000 dollar motor with a **** chain ?
also i would love to see a dyno sheet of your car or at least a picture of the engine bay, i personally do not think you have a 1000whp car and you are bluffing
katech chain is not an ls2 chain, it is made different, just because it fits ls2 sprockets does not make it exactly the same as an ls2 chain
04-26-2010, 03:59 PM
#35
you're a retard... plenty of people on this board know my car. search my name... and yes sorry bud but your "Katech chain" is an LS2 chain. now you're calling your wonderful "Katech chain" a **** chain. i use it because it works and it was all you could get that was good when the motor went together 3 years ago.
04-27-2010, 01:20 AM
#36
The Katech chain (C5R) is not the same as the LS2. Dimension wise yes they are close, but they are indeed made differently. Some LS2 chains did fail whether a metallurgy issue or harmonic(addressed with Timing chain damper). Katech could have used the LS2 chain, but felt there was a need to have a better built piece. They have never had one fail in there programs entire history.
Single or double, just get a good one and be done with it. Either will do the job if they are not cheaply made. Sounds like your Ls2 is doing fine.
Single or double, just get a good one and be done with it. Either will do the job if they are not cheaply made. Sounds like your Ls2 is doing fine.
04-27-2010, 11:53 AM
#38
Comparing them side by side isn't going to show anything beyond physical dimensions. They are different. Call jason over at Katech. He can explain how they are made differently. The LS2 again is a different chain. Nothing really to discuss guys. The C5R is in a class by itself. As I have said too many times, the LS2 has broken on quite a few vette guys. On the other hand the C5R chain has NEVER broken. They are made differently. Can we let this thread die now.....
04-27-2010, 07:04 PM
#39
04-27-2010, 08:37 PM
#40
Looks like any chain would have broken in that situation with a bad balancer. Something is definately wrong with his motor, was from the get go. You could say ross for example makes a crappy piston because a guy swapped them into a turbo motor without a tune and the ring lands broke. Really a je wieseco wouldnt have faired any better. There is a cause here and I highly doubt its the chain.