Want suggestions for a Vortech blown 382 stroker...
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 99
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Want suggestions for a Vortech blown 382 stroker... Hey all - posted this over at CF, but didn't get much response (yet, anyway...)
Not asking for me, but since a few of the Colorado guys seem to be going this route in the next couple months, I was curious what kinds of suggestions ya'll might have for good 382 blower cams. I've read through the archives a bit, and most of the information is for 346 cars. I've seen:
220/220 .581 on 114 (XE-R lobes)
224/224 .581 on 114 (XE-R lobes)
220/226 ~.570 on 114
224/236 ~.570 on 114
224/230 ~.570 on 114
Any different suggestions for a 382 stroker car, or does it not matter a heckuva lot? At least one of the fellows wants to make over 600whp, and will be running lots of boost on T-trim vortech.
Cheers!
-Jake
Not asking for me, but since a few of the Colorado guys seem to be going this route in the next couple months, I was curious what kinds of suggestions ya'll might have for good 382 blower cams. I've read through the archives a bit, and most of the information is for 346 cars. I've seen:
220/220 .581 on 114 (XE-R lobes)
224/224 .581 on 114 (XE-R lobes)
220/226 ~.570 on 114
224/236 ~.570 on 114
224/230 ~.570 on 114
Any different suggestions for a 382 stroker car, or does it not matter a heckuva lot? At least one of the fellows wants to make over 600whp, and will be running lots of boost on T-trim vortech.
Cheers!
-Jake
For a 3.905 bore x 4.000 stroke engine blown with a Vortech T trim, looking to make 600rwhp...
I think to make efficient power I would keep shoot for minimal overlap and keep the duration reasonable for driveability. I am running a FMS/Cam Motion 230/236//115 that that has about 3.5 degrees of overlap. It has excellent idle quality and does not lope too hard.
If it were me I would build it this way (and I thought about doing a 382ci):
8.5:1 382ci
6.0 heads
230/236 or 232/236 or 232/238 but no bigger
6.0 MLS head gaskets
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Vortech T Trim
Custom air/air intercooler
Pro M custom MAF to extend MAF frequency (or FAST system for 700-1000rwhp)
1.75 to 1.875 step headers or 1.875 full length headers, 3.0 primaries
3.0 X pipe
3.0 dual exhaust
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
I think to make efficient power I would keep shoot for minimal overlap and keep the duration reasonable for driveability. I am running a FMS/Cam Motion 230/236//115 that that has about 3.5 degrees of overlap. It has excellent idle quality and does not lope too hard.
If it were me I would build it this way (and I thought about doing a 382ci):
8.5:1 382ci
6.0 heads
230/236 or 232/236 or 232/238 but no bigger
6.0 MLS head gaskets
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Vortech T Trim
Custom air/air intercooler
Pro M custom MAF to extend MAF frequency (or FAST system for 700-1000rwhp)
1.75 to 1.875 step headers or 1.875 full length headers, 3.0 primaries
3.0 X pipe
3.0 dual exhaust
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
230/236 or 232/236 or 232/238 but no bigger
...
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
...
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
With small overlap like that, do you have feel for their chances of passing a sniffer with cams that size, or might they need to tend towards smaller grinds?
Cheers,
-Jake
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
I'm making a call right now to get some more advice for this thread.
If it helps, the fellow that is closest to getting this done currently has a 220/220 XE-R cam on 114, and some high compression stage II heads. He's open to swapping both of those to meet his goals though, obviously.
His current thoughts (from talks with his shop) had been to run mid 9's compression, since up here in Colorado, we can use all the extra help we can get - mid 8's might be a bit too sluggish off-boost. That's the guess anyway, I've only had experience with 2.0L forced induction motors up here, which make zero torque no matter what, until the boost kicks in
Thanks!,
-Jake
I don't know much about high altitude performance and compression.
I was talking to Terry at Cam Motion, and he is not one to generalize regarding cam specs but he did basically say that big power in a stroker he would go with more cam than I have in my 348ci motor. I have a 230/236. He said he would typically look at stuff that had 4-8 more degrees if duration if emissions was not an issue. To some extent the increase in camshaft is proportionally driven by the increase in the displacement of the engine. So if I were to generalize it sounds like the max cam he would run in a blower car that was spun up to like 7000 or so would be a 238/244. He generally would not run more than 6 degrees of split for a street car. But he also pointed out that smaller cams will pass emissions and make good power but perhaps give up some potential power. We were chatting about whether my 230/236//115 would pass emissions I think that it might.
I was talking to Terry at Cam Motion, and he is not one to generalize regarding cam specs but he did basically say that big power in a stroker he would go with more cam than I have in my 348ci motor. I have a 230/236. He said he would typically look at stuff that had 4-8 more degrees if duration if emissions was not an issue. To some extent the increase in camshaft is proportionally driven by the increase in the displacement of the engine. So if I were to generalize it sounds like the max cam he would run in a blower car that was spun up to like 7000 or so would be a 238/244. He generally would not run more than 6 degrees of split for a street car. But he also pointed out that smaller cams will pass emissions and make good power but perhaps give up some potential power. We were chatting about whether my 230/236//115 would pass emissions I think that it might.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 99
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
4-8 more degrees if duration if emissions was not an issue.
What usual effect to split patterns (say, 6*) have on emsisions, or again, is it mostly just related to overlap, regardless of pattern, that one has to look at when considering emissions?
-Jake
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Verdad Gallardo Terry reccomended not going with a single pattern cam.
Too much overlap means you might lose boost out the exhaust and that not efficient. You will see high rpm race cars run a lot of overlap but they make 1500 hp at 8500 rpms, that's a different world.
How much overlap does that MTI cam have?
Too much overlap means you might lose boost out the exhaust and that not efficient. You will see high rpm race cars run a lot of overlap but they make 1500 hp at 8500 rpms, that's a different world.
How much overlap does that MTI cam have?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
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He can up the LSA to move the peak up while maintaining drivability. He should have no problems passing with a 234/240 115LSA cam with good tuning and a higher than normal idle for emissions testing. (With timing chopped etc)
Thinking and knowing a 234/240 cam will pass emissions might be two different things. It's possible that you could put an emissions tune in the car and get it to pass but I have no first hand experience with it.
While you can play with LSA to a limited extent it's not the primary consideration when spec'ing a cam per Terry.
While you can play with LSA to a limited extent it's not the primary consideration when spec'ing a cam per Terry.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Thinking and knowing a 234/240 cam will pass emissions might be two different things. It's possible that you could put an emissions tune in the car and get it to pass but I have no first hand experience with it.
While you can play with LSA to a limited extent it's not the primary consideration when spec'ing a cam per Terry.
While you can play with LSA to a limited extent it's not the primary consideration when spec'ing a cam per Terry.
-Jake
Bos' cam will make stronger lower end torque etc., but peak sooner, but will be very driveable and still make big power. I would probably go with more lift than him or maybe do 1.8 rockers if you can find a set cheap. My 6.0 heads flow well to .600 lift so I am running ~.600 lift.
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
For a 3.905 bore x 4.000 stroke engine blown with a Vortech T trim, looking to make 600rwhp...
I think to make efficient power I would keep shoot for minimal overlap and keep the duration reasonable for driveability. I am running a FMS/Cam Motion 230/236//115 that that has about 3.5 degrees of overlap. It has excellent idle quality and does not lope too hard.
If it were me I would build it this way (and I thought about doing a 382ci):
8.5:1 382ci
6.0 heads
230/236 or 232/236 or 232/238 but no bigger
6.0 MLS head gaskets
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Vortech T Trim
Custom air/air intercooler
Pro M custom MAF to extend MAF frequency (or FAST system for 700-1000rwhp)
1.75 to 1.875 step headers or 1.875 full length headers, 3.0 primaries
3.0 X pipe
3.0 dual exhaust
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
I think to make efficient power I would keep shoot for minimal overlap and keep the duration reasonable for driveability. I am running a FMS/Cam Motion 230/236//115 that that has about 3.5 degrees of overlap. It has excellent idle quality and does not lope too hard.
If it were me I would build it this way (and I thought about doing a 382ci):
8.5:1 382ci
6.0 heads
230/236 or 232/236 or 232/238 but no bigger
6.0 MLS head gaskets
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Vortech T Trim
Custom air/air intercooler
Pro M custom MAF to extend MAF frequency (or FAST system for 700-1000rwhp)
1.75 to 1.875 step headers or 1.875 full length headers, 3.0 primaries
3.0 X pipe
3.0 dual exhaust
I see no need to get too big of a camshaft to hit 600rwhp on pump gas.
Thanks
Kyle
Well, I saw a comment in another thread about adding 6 degrees of duration for every additional 50ci increase in engine size. That seems to mirror what Terry was saying yesterday on the phone.
We think, that's to say a few folks think that my combo will peak between 6600 and 6800. But I have a 348ci setup.
If we were to generalize, we could say that your proposed 236/242 which is +6/+6 compared to my cam, MIGHT peak similarly to my setup. MIGHT. I think you are an M6 so not sure we can do a apples/apples comparo of you to me since I have a T400 trans.
Your proposed camshaft in my smaller motor would probably peak higher, make a ton less torque down low, and generally would need to be spun pretty high to work. That's a race car.
We think, that's to say a few folks think that my combo will peak between 6600 and 6800. But I have a 348ci setup.
If we were to generalize, we could say that your proposed 236/242 which is +6/+6 compared to my cam, MIGHT peak similarly to my setup. MIGHT. I think you are an M6 so not sure we can do a apples/apples comparo of you to me since I have a T400 trans.
Your proposed camshaft in my smaller motor would probably peak higher, make a ton less torque down low, and generally would need to be spun pretty high to work. That's a race car.
