Piston Oil Squirters
^ Agreed. I don't think they're really moving that much oil, but I have no experience with them.
Judging from the pics on the Katech site could the end of the nozzle be adjusted for spray pattern?
Judging from the pics on the Katech site could the end of the nozzle be adjusted for spray pattern?
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From: Norn Iron
I know a lot of other OEM jets would have an internal spring so they only open above a certain pressure.
But I think other ones fitted are only around 1mm diameter, so not huge by any means. I might have a go at drilling mine, could maybe use a MIG tip as a nozzle ? drill and tap it into the main journals ?
But I think other ones fitted are only around 1mm diameter, so not huge by any means. I might have a go at drilling mine, could maybe use a MIG tip as a nozzle ? drill and tap it into the main journals ?
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From: Norn Iron
Considering the oil pressure relief valve dumps most of the oil out anyway, the engine would need to be in a dire state if the squirters were causing any harm.
Removing them is a backwards step, and I can see no sensible or logical reason you would ever want to remove them
A few sporadic thoughts on why some ppl remove the squirters:
Different engines run different bearing loads & oiling priorities and will therefore have different levels of dependencies on operating, and startup, oil pressures.
There are also two schools of thought when it comes to piston cooling:
In addition, some of the import guys (Honda & DSM that I know of) have had problems with their squirters sticking open, causing oiling problems at low rpms & on startup. See example of analysis here: http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-ar...ankwalk-theory
I think we can suspect that removing them is a bad decision, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them dim just yet.
==============
For my setup I will be running an "external" piston squirter system:
It might seem complex & costly, but for me it works out to ~ the same $ as having the block machined (Katech is the lowest price I found @ $300, but the're not local to me), and I'm willing to risk the complexity because the potentially severe failure modes have been pretty much eliminated. If the system fails the engine runs like normal.
The 'isolated' system also allows me to do some bench testing to figure out things like the oil pickup for the electric pump, and make adjustments for equal flow distribution.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful.
Regards,
Kurt Betton
Different engines run different bearing loads & oiling priorities and will therefore have different levels of dependencies on operating, and startup, oil pressures.
There are also two schools of thought when it comes to piston cooling:
- Drag racers will tend towards coating the top of pistons to [hopefully] convert the heat (that would normally be absorbed by the piston) into work (power), at the risk of a smaller tuning safety margin. These guys would also tend to prefer to recover the marginal hp loss from windage when using piston squirters.
- Circuit racers (or more specifically, ppl who stay on the gas for extended periods) will tend towards pulling heat out of the combustion chamber (piston being an easy target) to increase detonation threshhold, and can appreciate the oiling benefits moreso than the "live my life 1/4mile at a time" guys.
In addition, some of the import guys (Honda & DSM that I know of) have had problems with their squirters sticking open, causing oiling problems at low rpms & on startup. See example of analysis here: http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-ar...ankwalk-theory
I think we can suspect that removing them is a bad decision, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them dim just yet.
==============
For my setup I will be running an "external" piston squirter system:
- Electric oil pump activated by a hobbs switch (pulls oil from the pan)
- 2x -6 rails (from RMR) drilled and tapped for the squirters
- 8x individual squirters (.031" restrictors, 25psi checkvalves) modified for extra length to get closer to the pistons
- 1x 5micron inline filter mounted externally (to be cleaned every oil change)
- Teflon crank scraper
- Custom windage tray
- Modified oil pan
It might seem complex & costly, but for me it works out to ~ the same $ as having the block machined (Katech is the lowest price I found @ $300, but the're not local to me), and I'm willing to risk the complexity because the potentially severe failure modes have been pretty much eliminated. If the system fails the engine runs like normal.
The 'isolated' system also allows me to do some bench testing to figure out things like the oil pickup for the electric pump, and make adjustments for equal flow distribution.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful.
Regards,
Kurt Betton
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
A few sporadic thoughts on why some ppl remove the squirters:
Different engines run different bearing loads & oiling priorities and will therefore have different levels of dependencies on operating, and startup, oil pressures.
There are also two schools of thought when it comes to piston cooling:
In addition, some of the import guys (Honda & DSM that I know of) have had problems with their squirters sticking open, causing oiling problems at low rpms & on startup. See example of analysis here: http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-ar...ankwalk-theory
I think we can suspect that removing them is a bad decision, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them dim just yet.
==============
For my setup I will be running an "external" piston squirter system:
It might seem complex & costly, but for me it works out to ~ the same $ as having the block machined (Katech is the lowest price I found @ $300, but the're not local to me), and I'm willing to risk the complexity because the potentially severe failure modes have been pretty much eliminated. If the system fails the engine runs like normal.
The 'isolated' system also allows me to do some bench testing to figure out things like the oil pickup for the electric pump, and make adjustments for equal flow distribution.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful.
Regards,
Kurt Betton
Different engines run different bearing loads & oiling priorities and will therefore have different levels of dependencies on operating, and startup, oil pressures.
There are also two schools of thought when it comes to piston cooling:
- Drag racers will tend towards coating the top of pistons to [hopefully] convert the heat (that would normally be absorbed by the piston) into work (power), at the risk of a smaller tuning safety margin. These guys would also tend to prefer to recover the marginal hp loss from windage when using piston squirters.
- Circuit racers (or more specifically, ppl who stay on the gas for extended periods) will tend towards pulling heat out of the combustion chamber (piston being an easy target) to increase detonation threshhold, and can appreciate the oiling benefits moreso than the "live my life 1/4mile at a time" guys.
In addition, some of the import guys (Honda & DSM that I know of) have had problems with their squirters sticking open, causing oiling problems at low rpms & on startup. See example of analysis here: http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-ar...ankwalk-theory
I think we can suspect that removing them is a bad decision, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them dim just yet.
==============
For my setup I will be running an "external" piston squirter system:
- Electric oil pump activated by a hobbs switch (pulls oil from the pan)
- 2x -6 rails (from RMR) drilled and tapped for the squirters
- 8x individual squirters (.031" restrictors, 25psi checkvalves) modified for extra length to get closer to the pistons
- 1x 5micron inline filter mounted externally (to be cleaned every oil change)
- Teflon crank scraper
- Custom windage tray
- Modified oil pan
It might seem complex & costly, but for me it works out to ~ the same $ as having the block machined (Katech is the lowest price I found @ $300, but the're not local to me), and I'm willing to risk the complexity because the potentially severe failure modes have been pretty much eliminated. If the system fails the engine runs like normal.
The 'isolated' system also allows me to do some bench testing to figure out things like the oil pickup for the electric pump, and make adjustments for equal flow distribution.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful.
Regards,
Kurt Betton
And some valid reasons there. However I do not believe there is an engine out there with such an inadequate oil pump system, that that is a valid reason for removing them. Given all systems are a total loss, and at idle they provide plenty of oil flow with the pump turning at a lowly 1000rpm or less. The volume of flow increase as revs rise would be massive. I cannot fathom how any properly functioning engine could ever not cope with a few little oil squirters, given it will be dumping the majority of its oil flow back out the relief valve anyway
You're giving the OEM designers too much credit in thinking that they designed a "properly functioning engine"... 
Especially when they design the pump flow & pressures for OEM power (and bearing loads) then we go triple/quadruple the power and unleash the fury on the bearings with ignition advance and super-stiff pressure plates.
Different engines, different oil supply, different oiling requirements, different solutions.
All that said, it should be clear by now which side of the oil squirters fence I stand on.
Kurt
Especially when they design the pump flow & pressures for OEM power (and bearing loads) then we go triple/quadruple the power and unleash the fury on the bearings with ignition advance and super-stiff pressure plates.Different engines, different oil supply, different oiling requirements, different solutions.
All that said, it should be clear by now which side of the oil squirters fence I stand on.
Kurt
Teching In
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squirting since the 80's I know this is a little out of topic but toyota has been using this tech since the early 80' in the corrolla's, levin and truenos as well as the MR2's. My 90 corrola GTS had them on the 4AGE engine which redlined at 7600rmp in stock trim. They engineered them for the formula atlantic 4AGE series engine which spins around 11000rpm. Plus as previously stated good for lowering piston temps on the supercharged MR2 engine.
Even used on old tech non turbo ford 7.3 n/a diesel motors built by international. I tore one down for inspection at work. I was impressed to see each cylinder with a oil squirter, I kept some of the squirters. The engine had 600k+miles.
It got damaged because something punctured the oil pan from the outside. Loss of oil spun the bearings.
It got damaged because something punctured the oil pan from the outside. Loss of oil spun the bearings.
Teching In
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Does anyone know why the Katech squirters don't work in the RHS block? Does the RHS block need to be machined to fit all 8 or do they simply not fit? I haven't been able to determine if the RHS block can be machined to fit 8 squirters instead of the standard four bolts feeding 8 cylinders. I wonder if it's possible to modify the LS9 squirters for the RHS block cause $800 for the RHS squirters is steep.
For my 421/YSi SBC project , I used the Bo Laws Performance kit to modify my block for piston oil squirters.
It comes with 2 fixtures, one for cyl. 1-7 and one for cyl. 8. Here I'm doing cylinder 3. I have already drilled the hole then stuck the bit through to show the angle:
Here's a better picture of one of the oil feed channels that will feed the jet. The jet will slightly protrude where the bit is sticking out:
This one shows cylinders 2-7 oil feed holes drilled and marked for cutting the feed channels:
The oil feed channel for cylinder one cut and ready for deburr:
Lastly, the tools for the next steps: a drill/tap, tap and 8 jets. The holes don't get completely threaded; you leave the last 1/2" or so unthreaded to prevent the jet from vibrating loose into the motor:
And the final result, all piston oil squirter jets installed after doing the final wash on the block:
I chose to attack heat in the piston crown from two directions. Ceramic coated pistons to keep heat out and piston oil squirters to continuously cool the crowns and lube the pins. This is in prep for road racing, mile action and high speeds runs. I did spec an oil pump that has 10% more volume than stock to handle the squirter volume confortably.
Jim
It comes with 2 fixtures, one for cyl. 1-7 and one for cyl. 8. Here I'm doing cylinder 3. I have already drilled the hole then stuck the bit through to show the angle:
Here's a better picture of one of the oil feed channels that will feed the jet. The jet will slightly protrude where the bit is sticking out:
This one shows cylinders 2-7 oil feed holes drilled and marked for cutting the feed channels:
The oil feed channel for cylinder one cut and ready for deburr:
Lastly, the tools for the next steps: a drill/tap, tap and 8 jets. The holes don't get completely threaded; you leave the last 1/2" or so unthreaded to prevent the jet from vibrating loose into the motor:
And the final result, all piston oil squirter jets installed after doing the final wash on the block:
I chose to attack heat in the piston crown from two directions. Ceramic coated pistons to keep heat out and piston oil squirters to continuously cool the crowns and lube the pins. This is in prep for road racing, mile action and high speeds runs. I did spec an oil pump that has 10% more volume than stock to handle the squirter volume confortably.
Jim