Will this cam work on my setup, help!
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
yes the cam will work fine.
Is the cam timed in properly ? Are there any boost or exhaust leaks ? Is the tuner competent ? Do you even know what your CR is ???
And what is the problem ?? Is it slow ? Is it making crap dyno numbers ? What ?
As an example, many years ago. Mightymouse discovered that his car had a totally standard cam in it. If he doesnt chime in here maybe a search will reveal it. But his car was very very fast, and making very very good numbers on it.
So unless someone has fitted the camshaft in upside down, it is not your problem.
Is the cam timed in properly ? Are there any boost or exhaust leaks ? Is the tuner competent ? Do you even know what your CR is ???
And what is the problem ?? Is it slow ? Is it making crap dyno numbers ? What ?
As an example, many years ago. Mightymouse discovered that his car had a totally standard cam in it. If he doesnt chime in here maybe a search will reveal it. But his car was very very fast, and making very very good numbers on it.
So unless someone has fitted the camshaft in upside down, it is not your problem.
First POST THE GRAPH!
Second, you should not be putting 21* of timing to a stock compression bottom end with 16# of boost on pump gas. Atleast not unless you intend to blow it up.
You say that it is reading low kpa. kpa is boost. So are you saying that the boost gauge is reading one thing and the MAP sensor is seeing something else? Where is the boost gauge referenced and where is the MAP sensor referenced. What is the max KPA that you are seeing at peak power?
Second, you should not be putting 21* of timing to a stock compression bottom end with 16# of boost on pump gas. Atleast not unless you intend to blow it up.
You say that it is reading low kpa. kpa is boost. So are you saying that the boost gauge is reading one thing and the MAP sensor is seeing something else? Where is the boost gauge referenced and where is the MAP sensor referenced. What is the max KPA that you are seeing at peak power?
thanks for the help guys its just frustrating i dont have a graph but the vacum port on the pack of the intake goes to a vacum block that seperates off like 6 things including the map which the hose is 3 feet long and locates the map over out of the way by the computer.....
im not sure what the max kpa is reading ill call today and find out. could this be the problem ? does the map need to be basically attached to the intake? like from the factory.....
also he said its def boosting 16psi according the the gauge and to some other boost ref he hooked too while tuning on the dyno
im not sure what the max kpa is reading ill call today and find out. could this be the problem ? does the map need to be basically attached to the intake? like from the factory.....
also he said its def boosting 16psi according the the gauge and to some other boost ref he hooked too while tuning on the dyno
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
kpa is not boost, it is simply a unit of measurement for pressure.
And no, a 3ft MAP sensor line is not in itself a problem. Unless it was large diameter hose. But ideally it would be shorter.
And no, a 3ft MAP sensor line is not in itself a problem. Unless it was large diameter hose. But ideally it would be shorter.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
I have a pat g custom spec cam and my tuner says the cam isn't big enough and the motor isn't gettin enough air. The far is 11.80s across the board
The size of the cam is a 226/230 .598"/.600 114lsa +1 eps lobe.....
The car is a iron 346 with a front mount pt88
Pls help
The size of the cam is a 226/230 .598"/.600 114lsa +1 eps lobe.....
The car is a iron 346 with a front mount pt88
Pls help
Really? Isn't psi also a unit of measurement for pressure? So yes, they are 2 sides of the same coin. It's like lambda 1.0 = 14.7:1 AFR/gas. Just 2 different ways of saying the same thing. That's why electronic boost gauges get their reading from a MAP sensor.
still confused, i know the tuner is good he ahs tuned several reputable cars around town and several 3 bar tunes. is there something else that im missing. cobra killer- will this cam be suitable or should i swap it out with patg for another?
should i also find out what the max kpa is?
should i also find out what the max kpa is?
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First you say its an iron 347 with stock compression. Thing is they never made an iron 347. If you can't help us with a graph and more precise info of what the problem in we can't help you. Junk input = junk output
to answer your question, THAT CAM IS PERFECTLY FINE. ppl make better numbers with ls6 cams.
cobrakiller is right. at 16# of boost and 21* worth of timing, somethings not right.
NITROUSED383-op likely has a 5.3 bored to a 346, its a common thing. if thats the case, his compression is, or has to be, wayy down.
by my calculations, his compression is down to about 8.5:1. which would explain the 16#s and still be able to run 21* of timing.
basically, the motor isnt built right. if u wanted to run 8.5:1 compression, u should have the supporting mods to run 22-24+ psi.
these are your options when using pump gas
high compression-low boost
low compression-high boost
your setup right now is low compression-low boost. just doesnt work well
i would suggest looking at what timing is under the curve, trying to get some more spool out of it, if its not peaking till 5k, it needs help.
my suggestion, get timing down to around 16-17* and turn up the boost untill she crys. the motor needs the boost to make the power, id guess somewhere around 22-24#s
some questions for you, to help us diagnose.
stock pistions?
what head gaskets?
stock 72cc chamber?
what do u define as "stock compression"
stock bottom end?
head studs/bolts/stock bolts??
give us all the info u have about the motor(numbers!!)
compression, parts used, is it o-ringed? rings?
does the motor have blow by???
what temperature were these pulls made at, humidity, ect.
we need info
cobrakiller is right. at 16# of boost and 21* worth of timing, somethings not right.
NITROUSED383-op likely has a 5.3 bored to a 346, its a common thing. if thats the case, his compression is, or has to be, wayy down.
by my calculations, his compression is down to about 8.5:1. which would explain the 16#s and still be able to run 21* of timing.
basically, the motor isnt built right. if u wanted to run 8.5:1 compression, u should have the supporting mods to run 22-24+ psi.
these are your options when using pump gas
high compression-low boost
low compression-high boost
your setup right now is low compression-low boost. just doesnt work well
i would suggest looking at what timing is under the curve, trying to get some more spool out of it, if its not peaking till 5k, it needs help.
my suggestion, get timing down to around 16-17* and turn up the boost untill she crys. the motor needs the boost to make the power, id guess somewhere around 22-24#s
some questions for you, to help us diagnose.
stock pistions?
what head gaskets?
stock 72cc chamber?
what do u define as "stock compression"
stock bottom end?
head studs/bolts/stock bolts??
give us all the info u have about the motor(numbers!!)
compression, parts used, is it o-ringed? rings?
does the motor have blow by???
what temperature were these pulls made at, humidity, ect.
we need info
to answer your question, THAT CAM IS PERFECTLY FINE. ppl make better numbers with ls6 cams.
cobrakiller is right. at 16# of boost and 21* worth of timing, somethings not right.
NITROUSED383-op likely has a 5.3 bored to a 346, its a common thing. if thats the case, his compression is, or has to be, wayy down.
by my calculations, his compression is down to about 8.5:1. which would explain the 16#s and still be able to run 21* of timing.
basically, the motor isnt built right. if u wanted to run 8.5:1 compression, u should have the supporting mods to run 22-24+ psi.
these are your options when using pump gas
high compression-low boost
low compression-high boost
your setup right now is low compression-low boost. just doesnt work well
i would suggest looking at what timing is under the curve, trying to get some more spool out of it, if its not peaking till 5k, it needs help.
my suggestion, get timing down to around 16-17* and turn up the boost untill she crys. the motor needs the boost to make the power, id guess somewhere around 22-24#s
some questions for you, to help us diagnose.
stock pistions?
what head gaskets?
stock 72cc chamber?
what do u define as "stock compression"
stock bottom end?
head studs/bolts/stock bolts??
give us all the info u have about the motor(numbers!!)
compression, parts used, is it o-ringed? rings?
does the motor have blow by???
what temperature were these pulls made at, humidity, ect.
we need info
cobrakiller is right. at 16# of boost and 21* worth of timing, somethings not right.
NITROUSED383-op likely has a 5.3 bored to a 346, its a common thing. if thats the case, his compression is, or has to be, wayy down.
by my calculations, his compression is down to about 8.5:1. which would explain the 16#s and still be able to run 21* of timing.
basically, the motor isnt built right. if u wanted to run 8.5:1 compression, u should have the supporting mods to run 22-24+ psi.
these are your options when using pump gas
high compression-low boost
low compression-high boost
your setup right now is low compression-low boost. just doesnt work well
i would suggest looking at what timing is under the curve, trying to get some more spool out of it, if its not peaking till 5k, it needs help.
my suggestion, get timing down to around 16-17* and turn up the boost untill she crys. the motor needs the boost to make the power, id guess somewhere around 22-24#s
some questions for you, to help us diagnose.
stock pistions?
what head gaskets?
stock 72cc chamber?
what do u define as "stock compression"
stock bottom end?
head studs/bolts/stock bolts??
give us all the info u have about the motor(numbers!!)
compression, parts used, is it o-ringed? rings?
does the motor have blow by???
what temperature were these pulls made at, humidity, ect.
we need info
i talked to the tuner around 6pm today he said he put it down to 16deg of timing on 93 and it still had the same effect, which were decent numbers, but still room for WAY more improvement. (21deg on c16 race gas) is what i was refering to eariler (my fault i should of made that clear) because when this is all wraped up i WILL be running the same amount of boost on both tunes that ill have (one tune for 93, and one tune for c16(kill))
stock 6.0 head gaskets
stock 317s with 72cc chambers
factory compression, until the 317s were on (lowering the compression)
lunati rods with valve reliefs, stock crank, wiesco pistons
thanks for the help again guys. sorry for the ignorance
stock 317s with 72cc chambers
factory compression, until the 317s were on (lowering the compression)
lunati rods with valve reliefs, stock crank, wiesco pistons
thanks for the help again guys. sorry for the ignorance
Hey I was trying to help you out, I know you can bore a 5.3 to a 346. Last time I checked a 5.3 bored to a 5.7 is not stock, so how the hell can you call it factory compression? Aftermarket pistons are domed, dished or flat tops and usually the size of the dish / dome rated in CC's (cubic centimeters).
What is the ICL (intake centerline) of your cam installed at, this has been degree'd? Try it around 106-108 this will help low end torque / spool. You could throw on a set of 243 heads to bump the compression up (64.5cc) and these heads flow more than 317's. I think your actual compression is around 9.43:1 right now, if you're running 3.905" bore with -3.2 cc reliefs and .052" mls gaskets. What intake manifold are you running?
Or crank the boost up, that's what every unoptimized setup requires, disregard the extra heat and lower efficiencies. Not sure why you are bashing my setup? How many people do you know running a 224 cam with unported 243 heads making this power.
What is the ICL (intake centerline) of your cam installed at, this has been degree'd? Try it around 106-108 this will help low end torque / spool. You could throw on a set of 243 heads to bump the compression up (64.5cc) and these heads flow more than 317's. I think your actual compression is around 9.43:1 right now, if you're running 3.905" bore with -3.2 cc reliefs and .052" mls gaskets. What intake manifold are you running?
Or crank the boost up, that's what every unoptimized setup requires, disregard the extra heat and lower efficiencies. Not sure why you are bashing my setup? How many people do you know running a 224 cam with unported 243 heads making this power.
Last edited by Nitroused383; Nov 7, 2010 at 01:13 AM.
Originally Posted by Busy Mopper
Car has been down for almost 2 months while I did this
Iron 346 Fully forged, JE pistons, Callie Rods
Stock 317 heads
Pat G custom Cam
PT88 .75 AR Front Mount Turbo. Keeps Stock Kmember, A/c, and power steering, and doesnt require you move the alternator. ( TRMN8R's Old kit)
Dual Walbro 255s
-8 feed, Stock feed for return
Speed Inc High Flow Rails
80# injectors
31x12x4 Intercooler
3.42s
Built t5
Iron 346 Fully forged, JE pistons, Callie Rods
Stock 317 heads
Pat G custom Cam
PT88 .75 AR Front Mount Turbo. Keeps Stock Kmember, A/c, and power steering, and doesnt require you move the alternator. ( TRMN8R's Old kit)
Dual Walbro 255s
-8 feed, Stock feed for return
Speed Inc High Flow Rails
80# injectors
31x12x4 Intercooler
3.42s
Built t5
x2 /\
when the tuner lowered the timing, did he also up the boost??????? (thts what i meant)
no, 16 psi is not considered low boost. tht is relativly high and should make good power at that level.
it might have been said already, but what transmission does this thing have??? rear end??? gears??? tires???
maybe its not a dyno queen
when the tuner lowered the timing, did he also up the boost??????? (thts what i meant)
no, 16 psi is not considered low boost. tht is relativly high and should make good power at that level.
it might have been said already, but what transmission does this thing have??? rear end??? gears??? tires???
maybe its not a dyno queen
with the map sensor is connected into the vacum block by about 3ft of tubing. how much will this effect? im going to relocate it to a few inches of vacum hose, i think the 3bar map may not being gettin a clear reading due to the fact it could be malfunctioning due to being so long?