3800SII

I am still waiting to hear someone offer this for $250
Might wanna hurry up before somebody in China starts selling them....

We all know for a fact that either one will work extrememly well. How many people on this board know that you can do the same thing with a cheapy ebay wastegate and a u bend? Same results and a fraction of the cost! The only reason that I did not want to shell out the extra $500 for either model is because I wanted to test the similarities for myself; therefore I used the second WG method.

I personally believe these are both quality products that SP and Motovative. Yes time and effort have been put into placing these on the market. Yes the idea has been out there before... However, there is no way that there is that much $ invested into the actual parts involved. Call me crazy, but can't you make this with a simple divided turbo flange, some bushings and a WG actuator with a little bit of ingenuity? How many others have already done the same? It is worth the idea to buy the products you guys sell and avoid the extra work.. I don't blame anyone for a decent markup of at least 50% but making these available to everyone for a decent price of $250 and below just seems like it would be more sensible. Imagine selling 10 to 15 of these at that price versus maybe 5 at the other... If you lower the price more people will make the investment and word of mouth and dyno results will keep the products selling like hot cakes...

99Z28LS1

iTrader: (4)

I have a VERY good idea how over priced 100% of the parts on my car are. Its easy to make a car fast if you have a shop and get the parts at discount for yourself. KNOWLEDGE IMO is where people should pay more for, not parts. I'd pay more for someone's experience in the game than more for parts.

But as anything in life, there are always blind people. Even if someone made their own parts and took twice the time, I applaud them for trying to save themselves money.

I'm not doubting your knowledge, because I'd pay for that. But $500 is a bit ridiculous IMO.

westtexasbuff

iTrader: (40)

x2...

JAX04

iTrader: (17)

It really doesnt matter what we say, or think, SP isnt going to do anything, they have all the rich imports kids buying their parts left and right. What does a small group of LS guys matter to them?

Same problem with the GTO, parts are SO incredible pricey in comparison because the market is so small and the companies know we will pay it if we want it bad enough. It just sucks.

3800SII

My sentiments exactly....

Pardon my ignorance, but didn't this company claim to have a patent on the quick spool valve? I thought they had one much like what STS has on their turbo kits..

slowlsx

iTrader: (28)

I agree. 250$ I would have already purchased one but 500$ seriously? I'll just sell my turbo and put the 500 towards a lighter billet turbo that will spool quicker,do the job of the QUIK spool and be capable of more power.

Sound Performance

How much do you think we are actually making on these?? I mean I know that I could make them cheaper using a China actuator and lower quality stainless but is that what you want? Hell the Garrett actuator and rod end alone are about $80 cost. I could get a China one for $25 but they don't stand up to the heat for long. If I used a different stainless it would also save money, but the expansion rates would cause it to bind up when they get hot. There is a reason that I offer a life time warranty on these!

mike13

iTrader: (27)

Have you looked at installing a valve in the turbine housing? Many turbo set ups don't have the extra room to run the valve and in many cases you also need a extra flange as a spacer to allow the valve full movement.

Sound Performance

The only way that I could possibly makes these so that they cost me less than $250 is if I did them in batches of 100 + at a time. Unfortunately I do not have that kind of capital in this wonderful economy.... and not to mention that Garrett never has more than 20 actuators in stock in the USA at any time and I buy all of them!

I'm sorry if anyone thinks that I am ripping them off, I assure you that I am not. I make less than $100 per spool valve FYI. I use the best materials and the best (unfortunately expensive) machinist in the area to assure high quality and thus offering a lifetime warranty. I have had many people try those copy spool valves on eBay with terrible results. Almost all of them bound up under heat and 3 of them broke sending the valve into the turbo taking out the turbine wheels.

Sound Performance

That is certainly a possibility that we have looked into. It would require a bit of machining to make the port perfect etc and would require fabbing up a mounting block that could either be bolted or welded onto the housing for the actuator to mount to.

3800SII

Ever consider making an "economy" version using mild steel just to see if you could sell them at that price? Just a thought....

Sound Performance

We tried them in mild steel and they all bound up either from rust or heat expansion.

Chris@CBR

I'm going to side with the valve makers on this one.
Go and buy you a seat of CAD software, $5000.00+ and design it.
Then buy you a seat of CAM software, descent cheap software starts at $2000.00.
Cam software only applies if you plan on doing any of the pocket milling for the valve
yourself. Oh you will need a CNC mill for that and tooling.

These valves are at least 3/4 thick, maybe 1" thick .
I would like to be a fly on the wall when you get quoted on a 12' stick SS flat bar this thick, Yeah they give this stuff away.

The way it should be done is with a water jet machine, this is getting to thick for most laser cutters and plasma is to sloppy for a part like this.

Most water jet machines leave some draft on the part. What is draft? Draft is the angle
on the cut face of the part. They do have W/J machines that will cut with no draft but these guys that can hand you a part this thick that is near net get paid!

So you get the part W/J and you build a fixture to hold this part so you can CNC mill the valve pocket, drill and ream the shaft hole you will have at very least $150.00 - $175.00 in each flange if you count your time as anything.

Now you are left making the shaft, shaft bushings, butterfly, shaft arm, and actuator bracket.

Almost there!!! just a fixture to make and a tig welder away from retirement!!!

Now test the part, take pic's and photo shop them for the web site, make a youtube vid, post on your favorite house of pain "forum" and start defending yourself.

If you cut corners to reduce the price and have one go bad them cheapskates
will run you down on a forum, you know this is the truth!!!!

This is one of those parts that looks easy and cheap to make but quickly adds up.


The drawing for the divided T4 flange is easy to get, Google it.
Find you a shop with a W/J and a CNC mill, a CNC press brake machine "to make the actuator bracket" and welding shop to weld it all together.
You will find out real quick that $400.00-$500.00 is not a bad deal after all.

Guys this part allows you to have your cake and eat it too from a spool response
vs top end power stand point.
This is the closest thing you will get to a VNT turbo for a common day to day setup.

You can buy the the baddest billet BB turbo out there and the spool valve
will win every time in the response department for the same size turbine wheel
and A/R housing.

The billet BB option is well over $500.00 by itself.

Guys make your valves and stand your ground with the pricing.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

don't forget small batch costs, I think if he could build 5,000-10,000 flanges in a run he could get the price close, nobody cuts you any kind of break on materials, precision machine time unless they can make the money up in large batch quanities.

I will say that for $500-$600 it would be nice if we could send in our turbine housing and have you build the valve into the housing.

SATAN

iTrader: (2)

People ask me to make them quick spool valves all the time. I always tell them this:

"Sure, I can do it. I charge $250 + shipping for one. HOWEVER, it is not going to look as pretty as a Sound Performance unit. But I HAVE to charge $250 for it, due to the time it takes to make it. I actually have to make it by hand. I don't have CNC'd brackets and tapped flanges for pretty screws. I just use 1/2" thick stainless flanges. My flapper is hand shaped because I don't have a CNC. So if you want something as pretty as the Sound Performance unit, I can't help you."




All in all, the Sound Performance units are very nice parts. It was just foolish of them to charge $500 for them ON SALE. That's a joke. Drop the price down to $300 or even $350. At the end of the day, you would have to sell twice as many to net the same amount, but you would also be getting your name out there more.

Garret actuators cost you $80... cool.
Water jet flanges cost what $150 a piece AT MOST?... cool.
Sell it for $350 and you are still pocketing $100 for something you have to screw together and ship out. But Sound Performance would rather be greedy and mark it up 100% and tell people that is the SALE price. LOL.

THEN, you get people like me who make their own FOR MYSELF NOT ADVERTISING IT and then Sound Performance has the nerve to come in and comment on my youtube page with the suggestion that I stole the idea from you! HAHAHA get over yourself! It's a good thing Sound Performance doesn't make turbo manifolds or custom exhausts, otherwise they would have a full time job just going around accusing people of steeling their design because someone made one for them selves.

To Sound Performance. You make a good product and you have put in a good amount of R&D. However, going around ragging on the average American that makes stuff for themselves is childish for a business owner to do. You should be happy I even mentioned your name in my youtube video.


End Rant

mike13

iTrader: (27)

I don't see how they would pocket a $100? You lost me in the math, I suppose it would be $100 if someone else or something else paid for the overhead costs.

Chris@CBR

Yeah no kidding!
He left out the shaft, actuator bracket, screws, shaft arm, shaft bushings, butterfly and the consistency of doing it as a production part.

By doing them as production parts with fixtures and CNC equipment you can control quality and if there is a design flaw it can be tracked and fixed.

Doing one hear and there is one thing, but setting up to run 20-30 at a time
so you can ship them as they are ordered is another.

SATAN

iTrader: (2)

Yep, you guys are right, It must be impossible for me to make them for $50 in parts too...

2000RATA

I'm so sick of the "budget build" threads. If you can't afford to do it right then get out of the forced induction forum. I would suggest the "appearance and detail" section. FI is not low budget!

maro69camaro

LOL doing it right doesn't always mean to spend the most money. I will agree FI is not cheap but im not looking to **** money away..