mike13

iTrader: (27)

I don't think .500 is going to be thick enough by the time you drill and install bushings, not very much material left to transfer heat and proved a good seal. Also if your using a T3 flange why would you even need a spool valve?

stevieturbo

Ive seen these valves for sale for years. Where are the $100 versions then ? By your same reasoning, all quality turbo manufactures should be bust by now after China started flooding the market with their cheap turbos.

Strangely that hasnt happened ?

Low volume product costs money. Mass volume can be made cheap, but then quality control becomes important.

And I doubt it will ever become a mass volume item. There simply isnt the market for it IMO.

As for using them on big V8's, again I really cant see a huge need. It's not as if lag/spool etc is ever going to be so bad that it will be a massive benefit. Especially as most are auto's.

Now on smaller 4 cyl engines pushing big numbers, or some of the straight 6's, yes it may well be a good addition.

But some real proven results would be great to see. Certainly the idea behind it is a good one

killernoodle

It has happened with every other performance part out there. Just look at everything from blowoff valves, to wastegates, to manifolds, to intercoolers. Once people start buying the real thing, someone will send the plans off to china. Right now, the spool valve is pretty much under the radar. But for how long?

Also, the prospect of being able to run an 88mm turbo on a 5.3 or 5.7 and still have good spool with a manual is a tasty prospect. Or have a larger turbo in a rear mount setup. Either way, people want faster spool and bigger HP numbers, so if this thing actually works then there is a huge market for it. Just not at the $500 price point.

I'm not saying Motovative is going to go out of business because this might happen, I'm saying that if they have a lower priced competitor out there they are probably going to have to reconsider their business model. A lot of stuff is coming out of china nowadays that rivals the quality of performance stuff made in the US/Japan/whatever at a much more attractive price.

stevieturbo

Yes. And all of the above chinese parts you mention are complete and utter *****.

The only one that is usable, are their intercoolers. Mostly as they tend to be quite large. They certainly are not the most efficient around, but they do get the job done.

I would never even consider a chinese turbo, wastegate, BOV. And their manifolds....would only consider on a very budget build where I expected to have to repair them from time to time.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

It allows you to have the response of a small turbine wheel and the flow up top of a large turbine and a/r. I would agree that it's not needed but it's cool to have the motor making boost early and not going flat on top.

2000RATA

Case in point what happened to the APS turbo quality when it went to China? Does anyone want one of those kits? Do a search. Again, you have to pay to play.

JAX04

iTrader: (17)

Someone already tried that, then SP, who is a larger company, either threatened to sue them, or did, or something of the fact, and scared them out of making them. Thats where zombie got his first one, IIRC.

Their are companies out their. I could honestly care less. I like to see good arguments, either or.

I do believe they cost to much money, people had said about how thick their flange is, thats so the end user doesnt have to shave the inlet of the turbine housing so the valve can open all the way without hitting. Who cares.

Either way, they have nice products, i wont sell them short. my problem isnt nessacarily with the cost, its the fact that for some reason, everyone seems to think what i posted first, that they threaten to sue the little guy, or do, for making a part that looks like theirs.

Their attitude pisses me off too, they are not a sponsor, yet they come on this forum bashing other peoples products, and offering to do a group buy...

They want differences, ok, the guys on ebay, their flange wasnt as thick, theirs your difference. Who cares.

SP, nice product, Motovative, nice product. Other Companies make them and sell them for close to a grand in the diesel market. FAK, thats expensive.

And to the guy who said about budget and FI. Seriously, what do you think a truck manifold kit is? Budget minded, just happened to turn out to be a great way to build a turbo kit. I can agree, dont skimp on things like the turbo (which we are being proved wrong every day, Master power, some chinease pieces, etc.), wastegate, BOV. But seriously, we are talking about a flapper valve. Your argument doest exactly apply.

End of rant. I stand by what i think, their product is over priced, NICE product, but too expensive for my truck manifold, borg warner "budget" build.

Im done with this thread...

Motovative

iTrader: (19)

I was just waiting to see how long this would run on...

Truth be told, I quit selling them months ago. Just wasn't a market for them as turbo manufacturers are actually stepping up to the challenge and working with customers to design housings and wheels that get the job done.

For you guys saying these can be made for so cheap, on a quantity basis...take the challenge. Im all for DIY fabrication. You obviously aren't putting a price on your own labor

3800SII

I disagree... 1/2 is pretty friggin thick, and you also have to consider that the flange is sandwiched between a separate turbo inlet flange and the turbine housing flange. This gives you at the very least 1.5 total inches of metal. I think that it will be fine because I plan on using a shaft that is only about 3/16 to 1/4 max in diameter. That along with the proper bronze sleeve bearing should be more than enough to transfer heat, and keep it from leaking. Take a good look at a integral WG housing on an old Garrett turbo (or even a cheapy Chinese one). Notice that the door and swing assembly has some play in it, but it does not ever leak. This is what I am trying to do.

Why a spool valve???? Pure $hit$ and giggles ... Moreover, like I already posted that I did this with a separate external WG. The difference on my 6 cylinder is pure night and day in terms of spool time and top end. Having a spool valve is more compact than running two WGs. I am considering upgrading my T70/T3 front mount kit with a dedicated twinscroll setup to a T70/T4 flange with a spool valve and non divided manifold... once again just for $hit$ and giggles.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

"And to the guy who said about budget and FI. Seriously, what do you think a truck manifold kit is? Budget minded, just happened to turn out to be a great way to build a turbo kit. I can agree, dont skimp on things like the turbo (which we are being proved wrong every day, Master power, some chinease pieces, etc.), wastegate, BOV. But seriously, we are talking about a flapper valve. Your argument doest exactly apply."

It might be just a flapper valve but if you look into previous attempts you'll notice many attempts that ended in failure because of sticking and binding problems. Also you talking about a assembly that isn't maintained, takes tremendous heat and if fails can have catastrophic results to your turbo.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

It's interesting reading this thread, the way people are complaining you'd think there was a huge demand for this product. Reality is most people aren't interested and out of the people who might be there's issue's such as needing a divided housing, space requirements. It's a specialty part with a specialty price. The biggest T4 divided housing turbo out there is a BW 80mm or if you have it custom built a BW 83mm billet wheel.

It's a hand made part, but it's hand made because there is no demand, plus it just sits there there's nothing cool about it. Now if it was cool and trick looking sitting on the top of the engine somewhere like a throttle body because we all know everyone who buys a billet throttle body needs it.

stevieturbo

I reckon if they polished it to a mirror finish and sold it on egay, all the guys who think it's too expensive would jump to buy it

Shiny stuff sells to idiots.

killernoodle

Not everyone eats out of a silver spoon. If I purchased name brand everything for my car and didn't shop around for the decent Chinese stuff, I'd be in the poor house. And for what?

The quality of that stuff has come up drastically in the past few years. A lot of the stuff I've bought is almost as nice as the real deal stuff. And if it works, whats the problem here?

Avengeance

iTrader: (4)

I find it comical that anyone would bash down a person for STILL making parts for these cars.... we should be thanking anyone willing to still produce parts for our F-bodies.

Don't like the price... dont buy it. Jesus.

stevieturbo

Blunt, but true.

I'm all for a bargain if and when it is appropriate, and is still a quality piece.

But I'm also more than happy to pay for something that works and is reliable.

Ive bought enough crap over the years to know that buying cheap isnt always the sensible or cost effective option.

And this isnt in reference to the spool valve. I have never used, touched or even seen one of these pieces in real life. So Ive no idea what they are like. But Ive fabricated enough stuff and hat parts water-jetted etc that I know there is no way in hell I could do it for $100 even with getting some work for free.

tripblackls1

iTrader: (11)

So after much reading and research about spool valves, I have found somebody that has already what I was planning on doing , as far as I see it the main cost of theses valves comes from the 1"thick flange , and the simple solution for those that are DIYers and cheapos is to build the spool valve into the turbo
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/showthr...t=99339&page=4
^^he had shown good results with it this way
I've already ordered my parts for this , so far about 65$ , hopefully ill have it by the weekend so I can get to work on it

And FYI for those that want to bash on me for being cheap, that is not the reason for me doing this, I actually do not have the room to install a spool valve before my turbo , its just a added bonus that it will cost 400$ less

slow67

iTrader: (2)

If you have a little extra room, you could always do this:



Finally a good use for china wastegates? Worst case in the gate breaking, either slow spool or quick spool (and a little rich from extra backpressure).

tripblackls1

iTrader: (11)

That look great but unless I redo my entire hot side its not going to happen for me

mike13

iTrader: (27)

that's cool, that's the best of both worlds. No reason to bash you.

Zombie

iTrader: (2)

No one is ever getting my quick spool valve. Don't know why more people haven't stepped up and bought one, guess they are just too stupid when awesome is staring them straight in the face. Doesn't look pretty at all, but holy **** does it work awesome. My 1.25 a/r S380 87mm turbine wheel rear mount turbo literally spools in just under 1/2 the time of normal and I could adjust it to spool faster, but I already had surge issues sometimes from spooling so damn fast.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/new-...ipi_739094.htm

Boost gauge shots in that video from 3000 rpms and 18" vacuum to 15psi.

Drag strip I was leaving at 3300 rpms, 5psi boost on the two step and had 15psi at the 10' mark. My setup lived on that spool valve because of the 2.75 gears and 28" tires, made the car feel super responsive because it was in boost before you could even floor the pedal.

Twin S380's with spool valves on a 408.... geez, that's just scary to think about. I could heads up race anyone at the track an never worry about staging because it took about 1 second to get 5psi on the trans brake/2step setup at 3300 rpm. Just watch the tree and don't worry about anything else.