Turbos Roller barring or not That is the question
Turbos Roller bearing or not That is the question Is there a Big difference between the two. The kind of difference you can feel or see on a Dyno. Also what about the life span of a turbo? Say two T61 on a 422 6ltr will they 
Last edited by enderz06; Feb 13, 2004 at 11:25 AM.
Do you mean ball bearing turbos? They are not worth a single hp. They spool a lot faster though. On some combos you will see the same boost almost a 1000 rpm faster than a non bb turbo.
Limit Engineering said alsmost the same thing, however a local guy with running twin 76's on a 427 sbc chaged to ball bearing and went from 1250 rwhp to 1425 rwhp...my guess is the journal bearing turbos were tired, but he swears it was the BB. Seem like saying you can gain power with a stronger crank in a way...but different 
When my oil seals blew out of my Turbonetics T70 ball bearing turbo it was going to cost over a grand to get it right. Oil seals on a regular turbo cost $75 installed.
I'll never own another ball bearing turbo again.
It spooled fast, but so does just about any turbo with a V8 behind it.
I'll never own another ball bearing turbo again.
It spooled fast, but so does just about any turbo with a V8 behind it.
Brian
Sorry about the typo but that is what I was saying.
Thanks for the great input sounds fast spooling is not that big an problem
and the ease of maintenance is for me not to mention price.
Sorry about the typo but that is what I was saying.
Thanks for the great input sounds fast spooling is not that big an problem
and the ease of maintenance is for me not to mention price.
Originally Posted by Whistler
When my oil seals blew out of my Turbonetics T70 ball bearing turbo it was going to cost over a grand to get it right. Oil seals on a regular turbo cost $75 installed.
I'll never own another ball bearing turbo again.
It spooled fast, but so does just about any turbo with a V8 behind it.
I'll never own another ball bearing turbo again.
It spooled fast, but so does just about any turbo with a V8 behind it.
Ive sent some turbos back for rebuilds, BB and non bb . On my invoices the bb turbos only costed 100 bucks more to service. It also makes a diffrence if they are single or dual ball bearing.
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Verdad Gallardo The only power lost in bearings (i.e. standard journal) is the drag in wiping the oil off the bearing as the shaft spins. This drag is greater at low speeds obviously *less exhaust gas energy) ...ball bearings virtually elimate that. So I agree, more average HP, but should not equal more peak HP really.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: In the Cornfields
Originally Posted by Jammer
The only power lost in bearings (i.e. standard journal) is the drag in wiping the oil off the bearing as the shaft spins. This drag is greater at low speeds obviously *less exhaust gas energy) ...ball bearings virtually elimate that. So I agree, more average HP, but should not equal more peak HP really.
I'm not so convinced on the BB turbo's 1:price 2:if you have ever taken apart a ceramc bearing Garrett for example, the bearing's are there only support the shaft when the turbo is not spinning, once you have started the engine oil fills the gap so the shaft spins in oil, never touching anything. A BB turbo has just as much friction at low speeds because the bearing's have to move oil out of way to roll....instead of just floating in oil, like your crank, rods, cam and so on.
If someone has a dyno of a car that had a dynamically sealed standard bearing turbo, then an immediate switch to a BB turbo post up, because I have never seen any proof.......
Later
As far as price goes, BB turbos are only 400-500 more. Is anything that is better ever cheaper?
BB turbos have been an issue for a while now. Its hard to describe if you have never done an a to b ride along in a turbo car. I can tell you, we swapped out a 72 non bb turbo with a .81 housing and all that was changed was a move to a 72 BB turbo with a .81 housing, the boost came up so fast it was stupid. He had to control it by taking 500 rpm worth of stall out of the converter.
As far as the shaft laying on the ball bearing opposed to a non bb turbo? The shaft sits on the bearing on a regular turbo. I would rather it sit on a ceramic bearing then a brass sleeve/bearing. Its all about the moment of inertia. even though it is suspended on a film of oil, there is still some axial movement during spoolup that increase the drag on the shaft. When axial movment occurs the bearing/bushing will push the oil out and touch ever so slightly, increasing drag. The whole idea of the ball bearing adresses that fact by letting the shaft touch a bearing instead of a non moving bushing.
I dont think you can see it on the dyno, since its a boost vs time issue. It is not worth a single hp though.
I personally have a BB 76 on my car. If it would have been a drag only car i would not have bothered since with a two step and a trans brake, spoolup time is a non issue. But since most of its time it will see street duty, i wanted quicker spoolup with less converter.
BB turbos have been an issue for a while now. Its hard to describe if you have never done an a to b ride along in a turbo car. I can tell you, we swapped out a 72 non bb turbo with a .81 housing and all that was changed was a move to a 72 BB turbo with a .81 housing, the boost came up so fast it was stupid. He had to control it by taking 500 rpm worth of stall out of the converter.
As far as the shaft laying on the ball bearing opposed to a non bb turbo? The shaft sits on the bearing on a regular turbo. I would rather it sit on a ceramic bearing then a brass sleeve/bearing. Its all about the moment of inertia. even though it is suspended on a film of oil, there is still some axial movement during spoolup that increase the drag on the shaft. When axial movment occurs the bearing/bushing will push the oil out and touch ever so slightly, increasing drag. The whole idea of the ball bearing adresses that fact by letting the shaft touch a bearing instead of a non moving bushing.
I dont think you can see it on the dyno, since its a boost vs time issue. It is not worth a single hp though.
I personally have a BB 76 on my car. If it would have been a drag only car i would not have bothered since with a two step and a trans brake, spoolup time is a non issue. But since most of its time it will see street duty, i wanted quicker spoolup with less converter.
Brian
I love reading your post
I just Found these on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...%3AON%3AUS%3A2
Matt the guy Building and tuning my setup said they were the exact ones I needed and I got all of it for the price of 1 BBturbo of that size
I love reading your post
I just Found these on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...%3AON%3AUS%3A2
Matt the guy Building and tuning my setup said they were the exact ones I needed and I got all of it for the price of 1 BBturbo of that size
This is a Street/Drag setup But at 825rwhp It might not be to bad to have the power come on a little slower for drive ability. But from what I've read Spooling time would not be a problem with the 422Ci pushing it 