Boosted Cars are not very Quick!!!!
pro 5.0 isnt the fast class though...
im thinking he was referring to the big boys that were running 106mm turbos. if i remember correctly, they made them step down to a 101mm max because noone could keep up with.
im thinking he was referring to the big boys that were running 106mm turbos. if i remember correctly, they made them step down to a 101mm max because noone could keep up with.
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Originally Posted by Rob Raymer
Beg to differ. There are several qualified shops that can handle tuning a turbo'd or supercharged LS1 and make "serious" power. And I can't think of one Mustang shop that would know the first thing about the in's and out's of the LS1 engine, much less the PCM tuning on it. Trust me, just because stuff works on a Mustang, doesn't mean it will work on an LS1. After all, today's 5.0 Mustang motor has been around since when...early 80's?? So like 25 years basically. And the LS1 how long?? 5 years. Heck, there aren't even aftermarket heads available for it yet! We (collectively speaking here) can make 900+HP with stock cranks and blocks! (in some cases, even stock engines with single power adders!!) Show me a Mustang that's doing that
Why won't the Yank converter work? Why won't it handle all the torque?? My Z had a Yank converter in it and went 9's at more than full weight.
And I really don't think you'd want to run a Glide in a nearly 4000lb car either. Just ask people like Coan, Chance, Extreme, etc. My 400Turbo never missed a beat, FWIW.
Why won't the Yank converter work? Why won't it handle all the torque?? My Z had a Yank converter in it and went 9's at more than full weight.
And I really don't think you'd want to run a Glide in a nearly 4000lb car either. Just ask people like Coan, Chance, Extreme, etc. My 400Turbo never missed a beat, FWIW.
Obviously we are on totally different pages here. If I'm building an all out turbo drag car, it will NOT have the stock PCM, it would be in the trash! To go really fast, you would need the DFI or a FAST system. So yes, a Mustang shop would know how to tune it. The LS1 is just a motor, like anything else. There is nothing voodoo special about it. When you say "serious" power, how much is that? To me, that means 1800+hp.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match about what a Mustang can and can't do, the numbers they are running speak for themselves.
This is just my preference, if that is what works for you, then keep on using it. The Chance converters are badass. That is what I have in my car. For an all out drag car, the glide is my choice. The ultimate would be a Liberty, but if you don't know anything about clutches, you are going to spend a whole season losing
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From: Charlestown, Indiana
You still missed the whole point. Serious power for a TRUE street car (which is what we have been talking about here) is anything in the 700+rwhp range, IMHO. 1800HP is a racecar. Period.
And yes, the LS1 IS different than a Mustang motor. And I COMPLETELY disagree that your average Mustang Shop would know how to make one handle a lot of boost (or even your "above average" Mustang shop for that matter). I can't even begin to tell you all of the work we've done over the last 3 years to perfect the "head lifting" issues. And there are several LS1 Shops that still haven't perfected it.
And of course the stock PCM is basically worthless for a high HP motor. If no other reason than just the fact you can't effectively run large enough injectors to support 1800HP with it. Not to mention the need for Wideband operation at WOT.
And again, unless you ARE building a complete Drag Only car, a Glide just won't work.
And yes, the LS1 IS different than a Mustang motor. And I COMPLETELY disagree that your average Mustang Shop would know how to make one handle a lot of boost (or even your "above average" Mustang shop for that matter). I can't even begin to tell you all of the work we've done over the last 3 years to perfect the "head lifting" issues. And there are several LS1 Shops that still haven't perfected it.
And of course the stock PCM is basically worthless for a high HP motor. If no other reason than just the fact you can't effectively run large enough injectors to support 1800HP with it. Not to mention the need for Wideband operation at WOT.
And again, unless you ARE building a complete Drag Only car, a Glide just won't work.
I think there is too much emphasis on drag racing. Drag racing isn't a measure of how fast a car is, it's a measure of how well a car accelerates. The fastest stock-bodied, "door-slammer" in the world is still a twin-turbo Firebird that went 300 mph on the Bonneville Salt Flats.
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I think more people here are concerned with power/speed they can actually USE.
Drag racing is a lot more real world than 300 mph salt flat runs.
I can do 0-100 just merging on the highway on my way to work.
What good is a 300 mph top end if you can never use it?
And this topic was about DRAG RACING, you might as well post on the main forum and say there is too much emphasis on making our cars faster.
For all the good it would do.
Drag racing is a lot more real world than 300 mph salt flat runs.
I can do 0-100 just merging on the highway on my way to work.
What good is a 300 mph top end if you can never use it?
And this topic was about DRAG RACING, you might as well post on the main forum and say there is too much emphasis on making our cars faster.
For all the good it would do.
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From: PA
i think some people here are really confused...
90% of the people in FI in ls1tech want hp with STREETABILITY A JUICED H/C CAR CANNOT GIVE EVER.
how mnay turbo DRAGSTERS compared to n20 dragsters are there? it's no even close.
understand it's a choice....a choice NOT to make it a race car.
sinc we ALL know a turbo car WILL MAKE MORE AVG TORQUE ALWAYS, and the fact that the owner may CHOOSE to LET his car put it to the ground is another story.
It's a JOKE to think somehow the diff in slips has to do with ENGINES.
how many NEAR 4000lb LS1s hit 9s with the famous juice? not on its best day, sorry.
One COULD gut it to hell and make it a racecar, Choose to keep a STREET car.
and about drag racing...hat about the f-bird tha went MID 8s? a convertible at that LMAO
that's the potential of a fi drag car. there's 1000 non-fi drag cars how many in the 8s? (in ls1 tech) 2, 3?
PCT wise it's not even close.
AND the ls1 is still a NEW engine relatively...with small expensive after market for FI, scary really.
no sponsored MEaningless "dot tire" turbo classes to further or help it (this class is the biggest joke, the record changes hands every other day from TRD built supras to 5.0s with endless budgets and their own little classes in their own little world)
having a 11 second slip but gettin pulled by 120mph by a 12 second turbo civic is not so great specially when you gave up some streetability to get there.
but of course, it's a matter of CHOICE.
90% of the people in FI in ls1tech want hp with STREETABILITY A JUICED H/C CAR CANNOT GIVE EVER.
how mnay turbo DRAGSTERS compared to n20 dragsters are there? it's no even close.
understand it's a choice....a choice NOT to make it a race car.
sinc we ALL know a turbo car WILL MAKE MORE AVG TORQUE ALWAYS, and the fact that the owner may CHOOSE to LET his car put it to the ground is another story.
It's a JOKE to think somehow the diff in slips has to do with ENGINES.
how many NEAR 4000lb LS1s hit 9s with the famous juice? not on its best day, sorry.
One COULD gut it to hell and make it a racecar, Choose to keep a STREET car.
and about drag racing...hat about the f-bird tha went MID 8s? a convertible at that LMAO
that's the potential of a fi drag car. there's 1000 non-fi drag cars how many in the 8s? (in ls1 tech) 2, 3?
PCT wise it's not even close.
AND the ls1 is still a NEW engine relatively...with small expensive after market for FI, scary really.
no sponsored MEaningless "dot tire" turbo classes to further or help it (this class is the biggest joke, the record changes hands every other day from TRD built supras to 5.0s with endless budgets and their own little classes in their own little world)
having a 11 second slip but gettin pulled by 120mph by a 12 second turbo civic is not so great specially when you gave up some streetability to get there.
but of course, it's a matter of CHOICE.
I think its interesting that when you see a fast "street" car at the drag strip and they run a very fast ET on juice, the announcer will say, "and its all bottle"... with disdain in his voice.
No respect for juicing. But there is always an enthusiastic response for know-how and engine/chassis building skill. And while for some speed is all that matters, to the real hot rodder, juice just aint cool, unless of course you already have everything else.
No respect for juicing. But there is always an enthusiastic response for know-how and engine/chassis building skill. And while for some speed is all that matters, to the real hot rodder, juice just aint cool, unless of course you already have everything else.
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Fast is fast, no matter how you do it.
FI or N/A is infinitely cooler than n2o though.
But anything streetable, stealth, and unassuming makes me smile the most.
Perhaps that explains my obsession with turbos?
FI or N/A is infinitely cooler than n2o though.
But anything streetable, stealth, and unassuming makes me smile the most.
Perhaps that explains my obsession with turbos?
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: ROWLETT TX USA
Originally Posted by White_Hawk
I think the premise of this thread is wrong!
Agostino Racing 8.54 @ 167 with directport big CI.
Ron Duke runs 8.52 @ 163 with a F1R procharger.
Seems like the boost guys have the fastest car right now, wouldn't you say? You should be asking "Why can't nitrous cars go as fast as boosted cars?".
-Geoff
Agostino Racing 8.54 @ 167 with directport big CI.
Ron Duke runs 8.52 @ 163 with a F1R procharger.
Seems like the boost guys have the fastest car right now, wouldn't you say? You should be asking "Why can't nitrous cars go as fast as boosted cars?".
-Geoff
Ron Duke's time was nitrous assisted. Without the juice he was slower.
I have to say this, inclement weather, like 85+ degrees, humidity, hi DA will definitely effect FI much more than a nitrous motor. So yeah, while our power is not on tap all the time, a FI is not always at full power all the time, depending on the weather.
Originally Posted by z98
I think more people here are concerned with power/speed they can actually USE.
Drag racing is a lot more real world than 300 mph salt flat runs.
I can do 0-100 just merging on the highway on my way to work.
What good is a 300 mph top end if you can never use it?
And this topic was about DRAG RACING, you might as well post on the main forum and say there is too much emphasis on making our cars faster.
For all the good it would do.
Drag racing is a lot more real world than 300 mph salt flat runs.
I can do 0-100 just merging on the highway on my way to work.
What good is a 300 mph top end if you can never use it?
And this topic was about DRAG RACING, you might as well post on the main forum and say there is too much emphasis on making our cars faster.
For all the good it would do.
And then there's Open Road Racing; same story, high speed but all legal and done with the proper safety equipment.
i just dont understand how in the world people think building a proper motor and fuel system for nitrous is cheap and easy? a little 100 dry shot, sure, that is cheap and easy. not when it comes to big shots.
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by gator's 99TA
i just dont understand how in the world people think building a proper motor and fuel system for nitrous is cheap and easy? a little 100 dry shot, sure, that is cheap and easy. not when it comes to big shots.
I think it takes two different mind sets when approaching the two different poweradders. Some guys go in thinking it's all about ET. They sacrifice the car, the ride, the looks, and the drivability to achieve that. These are usually the guys who don't see an issue with chemical induction. It's just another way to achieve their ultimate goal.
On ther other hand some guys think it's all about the car. Usually they want the car to be great in all areas, not just ET. If it's all about the car then you're not going to view adding a chemical to your car to make it faster in the same way.
I'm not knocking N2O. it's not for me and I view it as external from the car, but that's me. I'm in it for the car.
Mike
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Originally Posted by Rob Raymer
You still missed the whole point. Serious power for a TRUE street car (which is what we have been talking about here) is anything in the 700+rwhp range, IMHO. 1800HP is a racecar. Period.
And yes, the LS1 IS different than a Mustang motor. And I COMPLETELY disagree that your average Mustang Shop would know how to make one handle a lot of boost (or even your "above average" Mustang shop for that matter). I can't even begin to tell you all of the work we've done over the last 3 years to perfect the "head lifting" issues. And there are several LS1 Shops that still haven't perfected it.
And of course the stock PCM is basically worthless for a high HP motor. If no other reason than just the fact you can't effectively run large enough injectors to support 1800HP with it. Not to mention the need for Wideband operation at WOT.
And again, unless you ARE building a complete Drag Only car, a Glide just won't work.
And yes, the LS1 IS different than a Mustang motor. And I COMPLETELY disagree that your average Mustang Shop would know how to make one handle a lot of boost (or even your "above average" Mustang shop for that matter). I can't even begin to tell you all of the work we've done over the last 3 years to perfect the "head lifting" issues. And there are several LS1 Shops that still haven't perfected it.
And of course the stock PCM is basically worthless for a high HP motor. If no other reason than just the fact you can't effectively run large enough injectors to support 1800HP with it. Not to mention the need for Wideband operation at WOT.
And again, unless you ARE building a complete Drag Only car, a Glide just won't work.
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From: Your Reality Check Bounced...
I had a 90 GSX AWD Turbo with a 20g then upgraded to a T66.....never had a problem with spoolage....all u do is set up 50-100 shot of N20 to cut off at a certain level (When on race gase it cut off at 20 psi) on pump gas it turned off at 12 psi......on Pump gas w/my Apexi intercooler I could boost up to 20 psi on pump gas w/no detonaton.....with 116 I could go 28-30psi.....it's all about how u set up ur car and what u want to do w/it.
On the street...i was hardly untuchable...on the track...with a limited slip diff...11.00's was the best I coud do on ET Drags with Dodge truck rims.....
When it comes to boosting I know my ****.
On the street...i was hardly untuchable...on the track...with a limited slip diff...11.00's was the best I coud do on ET Drags with Dodge truck rims.....
When it comes to boosting I know my ****.
Originally Posted by Noyzee
I agree, n2o cars are faster. but hey lets race 10 times in a row, no getting out of the car or doing anything. have to stay buckled in all 10 races, hot lapped.
lets go. How bout a street race, oh your bottle is empty because you had to work late so the speed shop was closed, sure i'll be back tommorow to race you once the bottle is full.
Your right, n2o cars are faster and easier to do and cheeper, so why even ask the question. get juiced!!!! easy as that.
lets go. How bout a street race, oh your bottle is empty because you had to work late so the speed shop was closed, sure i'll be back tommorow to race you once the bottle is full.
Your right, n2o cars are faster and easier to do and cheeper, so why even ask the question. get juiced!!!! easy as that.
...I raced a 03 Cobra three times last summer, each time he blew the belt at about the 60 ft. mark (on the street)... If you want to put a buch of stupid, unrealistic qualifications on racing, such as 10 times back to back and not able to get out of the car, then you will have a real hard time actually racing. I used to get about 8 full runs out of my 15 lb bottle (17 lbs of nitrous in it), and NO ONE wanted to race me 10 times in a row! Excuses suck, winning does not. I dont car if I end up racing a full drag car on the street, if I get beat it sucks, and I don't tell everyone "well my car is a street car and drives like stock with an 4-speed auto and fully loaded and 3.23 gear". If you want easy cheap HP to street race with, nitrous is the way to go. If you want to impress people with whine, get a blower.