Good intercooler for 900whp?
05-14-2012, 04:02 AM
#41
@ Vetal.
Are you looking for an identical replacement, or a custom unit to be made, or simply a better core for your existing end tanks ?
Can you do any fabrication yourself ?
There are plenty of companies in the UK that can make complete units, or just supply you a core to weld onto your existing end tanks
As others have said, if you genuinely believe the core is the problem, then it is throwing money away just buying another cheap Chinese core which will be identical.
Another option might be if you can find an aftermarket IC as used on Nissan Skylines, as generally they are pretty big with well designed end tanks. The biggest failing on all the cheap chinese cores is the terrible end tank design which does nothing to promote even or good flow through the actual core.
Even if you were to cut them off and add maybe an inch or so of a spacer to give the end tank more volume it would help flow.
Are you looking for an identical replacement, or a custom unit to be made, or simply a better core for your existing end tanks ?
Can you do any fabrication yourself ?
There are plenty of companies in the UK that can make complete units, or just supply you a core to weld onto your existing end tanks
As others have said, if you genuinely believe the core is the problem, then it is throwing money away just buying another cheap Chinese core which will be identical.
Another option might be if you can find an aftermarket IC as used on Nissan Skylines, as generally they are pretty big with well designed end tanks. The biggest failing on all the cheap chinese cores is the terrible end tank design which does nothing to promote even or good flow through the actual core.
Even if you were to cut them off and add maybe an inch or so of a spacer to give the end tank more volume it would help flow.
I could fabricate smth. up I guess, do you have some not very expensive cores/units in mind? The only option I see now is Treadstone, but I couldn't find any actual data on pressure drop, just people saying they WORK (but so people say about ebay coolers too)
05-14-2012, 04:16 AM
#42
9 Second Club
There are plenty of core suppliers both in the UK and the US.
You will be able to buy absolutely anything you want, although the US will likely be cheaper than the UK.
UK
Docking Engineering ( I'm using one of their cores )
Pace Products ( probably the biggest source in the UK, they make their own )
A&H Fabrications
Spec R ( apparently sell Garrett cores )
Forge Motorsport
Radtec
GRS Motorsport
Proalloy
And some good info and an Aussie supplier. They can sell proper stuff or Chinese, and they highlight the inefficiencies of the chinese units.
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techt/foc...tercoolers.htm
http://www.are.com.au/products/alter...olersCores.htm
Int the US, some suppliers would be
Bell
Garrett
Spearco
Treadstone
and I'm sure a google will find more.
You will be able to buy absolutely anything you want, although the US will likely be cheaper than the UK.
UK
Docking Engineering ( I'm using one of their cores )
Pace Products ( probably the biggest source in the UK, they make their own )
A&H Fabrications
Spec R ( apparently sell Garrett cores )
Forge Motorsport
Radtec
GRS Motorsport
Proalloy
And some good info and an Aussie supplier. They can sell proper stuff or Chinese, and they highlight the inefficiencies of the chinese units.
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techt/foc...tercoolers.htm
http://www.are.com.au/products/alter...olersCores.htm
Int the US, some suppliers would be
Bell
Garrett
Spearco
Treadstone
and I'm sure a google will find more.
05-14-2012, 04:18 AM
#43
9 Second Club
or if you are back to cheap cores again. Here is a seller in the Uk selling a chinese Skyline intercooler with a 120mm ( ie almost 5" thick core ) but as you can see end tank design is a huge improvement over the crappy universal stuff.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R33-NISSAN...#ht_2985wt_902
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R33-NISSAN...#ht_2985wt_902
05-14-2012, 07:21 AM
#45
What type of core are you running at the moment? bar and plate?
Chris.
05-14-2012, 12:13 PM
#48
9 Second Club
An intercooler for a 1000bhp 4cyl turbo engine will be totally different than a 10 litre V8. They may need to flow for similar amounts of air, but cooling requirements will be totally different.
Flowing the air is the easiest bit.
So to rate them in such a way is just BS IMO.
I paid around £450 for my current core and then I butchered up some end tanks myself. That was from Docking, Pace products were around £390 although that was only a 100mm core. Docking were able to do me the 115mm thick core.
Overall dims of the actual core itself were
Tube length 23.6"
Rows/height 15"
Thickness 4.5"
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...al-effect.html
Ultimately your limited to what you can fit on the vehicle. So just buy the biggest/best core you can fit onto the vehicle and afford to buy.
And make well designed free flowing end tanks.
There are some groups here in the UK that rant about how great Spec-R's Garrett cores are. Ive only seem them from the outside, and TBH they look just like the Chinese stuff. Obviously they arent though. Not sure what their pricing is like either.
But if they are genuine Garrett, then you can be sure they are decent
You will not buy a custom made quality core for cheap money though. So in that respect, the Chinese stuff is very good. One of those cheap Skyline units would be a decent base to work with given how little they cost.
05-15-2012, 11:47 PM
#51
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a copy and paste from my intercooler post over on performancetrucks.
I've never been a big fan of the Ebay intercooler from china town. I'm used to seeing around 10 degree intake temps rise on my talon with 35+psi boost pressure in a 1/4 mile. My current core included in the KB racing kit is seeing around 80 degrees rise in 11 second track pass at anything over 14psi. I'm not saying you can't get away with it, but I like my intake temps as low as possible. I race in South Carolina, heat is not my friend.
That being said this is a custom ExtremeTurboSystems intercooler, rated at 820HP with a 20x12x4 core. It will also clear the frame rails and mount to the support beam located on the top of the cooler with two bolts. They also make a 5inch thick version if you need more HP/Cooling flow.
I'll share installed pictures and track results once tested.
I've never been a big fan of the Ebay intercooler from china town. I'm used to seeing around 10 degree intake temps rise on my talon with 35+psi boost pressure in a 1/4 mile. My current core included in the KB racing kit is seeing around 80 degrees rise in 11 second track pass at anything over 14psi. I'm not saying you can't get away with it, but I like my intake temps as low as possible. I race in South Carolina, heat is not my friend.
That being said this is a custom ExtremeTurboSystems intercooler, rated at 820HP with a 20x12x4 core. It will also clear the frame rails and mount to the support beam located on the top of the cooler with two bolts. They also make a 5inch thick version if you need more HP/Cooling flow.
I'll share installed pictures and track results once tested.
05-15-2012, 11:48 PM
#52
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are limited on space, plus people like to save coin. But there is a very big difference. Take a look.
Example of American built and engineered FMIC vs china town.
ETS is 20x4x12, China/Ebay is 19.5x3x11.5
China/Ebay installed:
Side by Side:
ETS on top, noticed of dense the fins are.
China/Ebay:
ETS:
China:
ETS:
The china core is rated at 300HP. I'm try to cool 700 crank HP. I also felt this was a bottle neck in the system.
Little performance feedback from a pull after work tonight. This was a 35-100 MPH pull after sitting in some traffic. Outside temp was low 70's, boost was 13.5psi.
Looks to have dropped temp during the run. Wow. Most likey as the truck went faster, the intercooler gained efficiency and worked toward ambient temps for the charge air. Pretty impressive heat exchanger and look forward to track time.
Example of American built and engineered FMIC vs china town.
ETS is 20x4x12, China/Ebay is 19.5x3x11.5
China/Ebay installed:
Side by Side:
ETS on top, noticed of dense the fins are.
China/Ebay:
ETS:
China:
ETS:
The china core is rated at 300HP. I'm try to cool 700 crank HP. I also felt this was a bottle neck in the system.
Little performance feedback from a pull after work tonight. This was a 35-100 MPH pull after sitting in some traffic. Outside temp was low 70's, boost was 13.5psi.
Looks to have dropped temp during the run. Wow. Most likey as the truck went faster, the intercooler gained efficiency and worked toward ambient temps for the charge air. Pretty impressive heat exchanger and look forward to track time.
05-15-2012, 11:52 PM
#53
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's some more data. The first log is a track log. Before burn out intake was 88 deg. At the end of the run I was pulling timing because it was over 140 intake. This was on a 55 degree track day. Running this core on a 90+ summer day would be a horrible plan to prevent knock.
The second log is off the streets, around 70 outside, best I got logged was a 1st-3rd gear to around 100mph. Temps started at 91, got to 84 mid pull, finished at 86 in third gear at 100MPH. Still going down on average. Very happy with it and now I can put timing back in my map up top. Also this is pretty much a engine saver for top end knock when engine temps are at there highest.
I'd bet at the track I will be around where I started or within 2-4 degree intake, start to finish. Old core shows 60-80 gains when you include burnout.
The second log is off the streets, around 70 outside, best I got logged was a 1st-3rd gear to around 100mph. Temps started at 91, got to 84 mid pull, finished at 86 in third gear at 100MPH. Still going down on average. Very happy with it and now I can put timing back in my map up top. Also this is pretty much a engine saver for top end knock when engine temps are at there highest.
I'd bet at the track I will be around where I started or within 2-4 degree intake, start to finish. Old core shows 60-80 gains when you include burnout.
05-16-2012, 06:53 AM
#56
9 Second Club
And I'll say again. Your test method was not valid. Unless you take a dedicated test port and you the know each measuring device is calibrated the same, the results do not stand
You cannot take a test port which bleeds air away ( ie your boost control port )
You can see clearly that the chances of a Chinese core being restrictive are almost zero due to having such wide open flow paths. Their cooling ability is the biggest thing in question.
Not their ability to flow air.
Compare a simple 3" diameter pipe area to the mount of area the core has to flow through. The core still has far more flow paths.
If you re-test and still genuinely believe the core is a restriction, then you need to pay the money and buy a proper core.
You cannot take a test port which bleeds air away ( ie your boost control port )
You can see clearly that the chances of a Chinese core being restrictive are almost zero due to having such wide open flow paths. Their cooling ability is the biggest thing in question.
Not their ability to flow air.
Compare a simple 3" diameter pipe area to the mount of area the core has to flow through. The core still has far more flow paths.
If you re-test and still genuinely believe the core is a restriction, then you need to pay the money and buy a proper core.
05-16-2012, 07:02 AM
#57
And I'll say again. Your test method was not valid. Unless you take a dedicated test port and you the know each measuring device is calibrated the same, the results do not stand
You cannot take a test port which bleeds air away ( ie your boost control port )
You can see clearly that the chances of a Chinese core being restrictive are almost zero due to having such wide open flow paths. Their cooling ability is the biggest thing in question.
Not their ability to flow air.
Compare a simple 3" diameter pipe area to the mount of area the core has to flow through. The core still has far more flow paths.
If you re-test and still genuinely believe the core is a restriction, then you need to pay the money and buy a proper core.
You cannot take a test port which bleeds air away ( ie your boost control port )
You can see clearly that the chances of a Chinese core being restrictive are almost zero due to having such wide open flow paths. Their cooling ability is the biggest thing in question.
Not their ability to flow air.
Compare a simple 3" diameter pipe area to the mount of area the core has to flow through. The core still has far more flow paths.
If you re-test and still genuinely believe the core is a restriction, then you need to pay the money and buy a proper core.