Roar

iTrader: (2)

"Camaroandreas" on this forum is just over the bay from you...(Sweden).
His company makes some unique head gaskets that can take a lot with stock LS block and heads without problems.
Think he made close to 1500 hp on stock block and stock number of head bolts...

themachasy

iTrader: (5)

Run aftermarket heads with thicker deck surfaces and good MLS gaskets. Will handle lots of power

stevieturbo

Why are you using head bolts, and not studs ?

Really, if you stay sensible with the compression ration, then you should be able to make a lot of power before head gaskets really pose a problem.

If you aim for higher CR with a higher risk of detonation, then you will of course run more risk of HG problems ( ie lifting the heads as they call it in the US )

But the weakest link aside from HG sealing will likely be liner thickness in the block. LS1 liners are very thin. Again, use a lower CR and stay well away from detonation, and you should be ok.

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

Most people are going by what they've read. Take it from somebody who has personally relaced many sets of head gaskets and has a car that makes well over 1000 hp. I aslo ran C16 fuel, is this going to be a race fuel only car? You stated street car and reliable, I gave you my opinion. If you don't want to push water don't get greedy, OR stock a few sets of head gaskets at a time like I did. LOL

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

Lastls1, you have LS1 with 1000+ HP? Can you tell a bit more, at what power did you ran into heads/gaskets problems and how did you solve them? Also what heads?
I'm going to run E85 all the time. But 800whp seems really low to me

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

stevieturbo, I currently have ARP head bolts in my motor, that's what was there... Probably has to do smth. with block being 2004+, but I hope not. I'm not against changing them to APR studs if that will help some. Will it?
My CR is 9.2:1, reasonably low I think.

themachasy, I wouldn't want to spend $2500 on another set of heads, if possible...

Roar, IIRC Camaroandreas made 1360HP but on iron block using his special gaskets. I keep them in mind too

stevieturbo

You seem very hooked on numbers, many of which could mean very little. The numbers it makes on various rollers mean nothing. Make it go fast, then there is proof of actual power.

Stick to a safe CR, and you can cram shitloads of boost into it with far less risk of breaching the head gasket integrity.

If you think a genuine 800whp is low, go build something better and faster yourself. But there is 800whp, and 800whp.

All whp's are not the same.

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

stevieturbo, I'm trying to understand limits of what I have and maximize current setup without breaking these limits. Yes numbers are very important, you won't make 9.5 second pass in heavy F-body with 600whp. Especially since our tracks don't have glue and often grip worse than just a good street. I figured I need around 1000whp to beat Evo's running 9.5s here... I'm not at this point even aiming at beating Audis running 9.1s on only 125cid... I certainly don't think 800whp is low, but it sure as hell is not enough

stevieturbo

So if your tracks have such crap grip, how do you expect to get anywhere near the 9's ? Are you converting to 4wd ?

If you have no traction, there really isnt much point aiming for even more power.

The limits you need to worry about, are traction. Unless you can pull 60fts around 1.5s or better, which on anything but a fully prepped surface will be impossible, you havent a hope in hell of going 9.5 or better no matter how much power you have.

That is a simple reality.

stevieturbo

And CR being low is debatable. The fuel does of course help. But it is not a modern 4v per cylinder engine.

The only way you'll find out, is to turn the boost up. trying to compare to others is one thing. What you can actually achieve in real life, with your setup may well be very different. and the only way to find out, is to do it.
But to play it very safe, I would lower the CR. It will cost very little in power available, but will add a massive margin of safety.

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

So I will up the power, work with suspension, but I'm not yet giving up on 2WD, sorry. Now that turbo is on, 4L80 on it's way, I'll see how much power I can put to the ground and then see what I can do. But I'm really not giving up on reaching 9's.

As for lowering CR, what's the point? It's cylinder pressure flexing heads, if I'd lower CR, I would have to run more boost and that means more pressure

stevieturbo

No, it is detonation that will breach head gasket integrity in a split second, or split a liner.

And more boost doesnt always mean more cylinder pressure.. Lower CR just means more safety, with a very small impact on the power it might make. Power made or detonation will dictate cylinder pressure. And your initial posts seem to suggest you dont want to take any risks.
So are you prepared to take risks and push as hard as possible, or do you want to push for safe power ?

There is only so much you can do with suspension. If the grip on the road surface is not there, it simply is not there.
As an example. Even on a fully prepped track, if I use the likes of Toyo 888's, which are generally a very good soft road tyre ( more a track orientated tyre ), well, the last time I tried all my 60fts were well above 2 secs and every pass into high 11's
If I fit MT DR's or ET streets etc, 60ft's can fall to 1.5/1.6 and dropping to 10 dead or dipping into the 9's with very good traction virtually everywhere.

But on anywhere other than a fully prepped track, it doesnt matter what tyres I have on, there is virtually no grip below 100mph, and I certainly have nowhere near 1000bhp.

So what sort of track are you racing on, and what is the surface like ?

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

stevie, yeah I agree about detonation vs CR. But I don't plan on lowering CR now, and I'm sure E85 will help me. Maybe meth injection too. I prefer to push things to their limits rather than play safe Cheap-***, I know.
We here race mostly on abandoned airfields. Only track in my city (1.8 too) has very old, grained asphalt. One 8.5sec car from Finland came and most it could do is 6.5s.

1CAMWNDR

iTrader: (21)

Look into ARP studs and the Pyramid rings that were mentioned before. Buy an 85-88mm turbo. Take the car to the track and start with9 psi, if it hooks, go to 12 psi. If it hooks, move up to 14psi, if it still hooks, continue. /thread.

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

Head gasket issues came in between 950-1000 rwhp. That was with a 408 iron block. ET heads, arp studs torqued three times, copper oring, special spray, rubbed my belly while patting my head. lol you get the picture. I went 8.2's with that set up with a air to air I/C, street driven . I now run a LSx. I agree with the other guys on dyno numbers. If you have a TRUE 850 rwhp you will be surprised. People see all these big hp numbers and get all caught up in them. In the low 900's the car would blaze the tires at 80 mph and power wheelie from a roll, ect.

I'm most impressed when people say my goal is to run in the mid 8's at 3600 lbs. How do I get there. People saying I want to make a 1000 hp, my question is why, what's your goal? a dyno sheet?

I'm sure my car makes over 1500 hp now but I could care less what the dyno says. For me it's all about the et and being able to compete in the 315 drag radial calsses.

Good luck with your build!

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

I thought is was around 1200 crank hp?

dstappity

iTrader: (2)

stock 6.2 LSA heads have a thicker deck than other ls motors. might hold up a bit better.

im gonna try them out on my ls2 turbo s10

Vetal

iTrader: (3)

So before 950whp you didn't have problems on iron block and ET heads? And after o-ringing, you ran 8.2 (what weight?)
I'm talking about power because I want to run 9.5s, and it takes power to do that. Don't care too much about dyno, but without some 900whp I wouldn't be able to run 9.5, so I asked. Does it make sense now?

Roar

iTrader: (2)

As Vetal mentioned above it was 1360 crank HP on an iron block. I remembered incorrectly - my bad......

But it is still a killer setup with the pyramid rings and special gaskets though..

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

At 920rwhp it went 8.53 at 3500lbs. It still pushed water with et heads oring copper iron block.

Btw double check your et estimates. I went 10.10 n/a with 500 hp. If you can't run in the 8's with 900 rwhp you have a problem.