if he made the primarys larger, did he make the actual log larger???

also the location of the wastegate, I dont see that as being htat big of a deal. I think that there is room left in the kit, the piping to the intercooler is very restrictive as well as the intercooler

ed

 

Sorry, I've been busy.

Okay, here we go:

The TTi kit has the wastegate in the wrong location, period. And that IS a big deal. Not to mention the fact that the DeltaGate simply can't support 600+rwhp.
The intercooler efficiency of the TTi kit is less than half the efficiency of ours. It's not "just end tanks".
The 2" crossover is too small, and a 2 1/2" crossover at the 600rwhp power level may be too big, slowing the velocity. However, the TTi kit's log IS a restriction. Even if the ports are now aligned properly, the log still only has a 2.15"ID, compared to our kit having a 2.5"ID.
It also has a very drastic bend going from the crossover to the log, causing flow problems.
The TTi kit's IC piping is too small.
Also, I haven't seen their new 3" DP, but someone told me that it wasn't actually 3" from beginning to end. The customer said that "it has a 2.5" section in it." I may have been told wrong, but that is what I was told none the less.
It uses a blow thru MAF, rather than a draw-through design. I know that many will argue this, and I can't give facts, just my personal results. Draw through works better, IMHO.

And FWIW, I'm using the machined small compressor T76 on the Formula. It's actually the original T76 P-trim I bought from George years ago, and then had it machined and upgraded to a Q trim last year. Imagine what a new GTQ Series T76 would do..., or an Innovative Ball Bearing T-80!!

All I know is....we got HAMMERED on here for saying that our kit was capable of making big power with a "restrictive log design". And how if TTi actually wanted to, they could "build a kit that would put ours to shame". Funny thing is, they have now built an all out race kit that makes less power at the same boost, and with an ARE built motor, ported heads, cam, and a standalone DFI system!

Just wait until we release OUR "race kit" in a few months....our rwhp numbers will be 4 digits long. Guaranteed. That's all I'm saying about it.

<Firesuit On>

 

does this mean you wont be running your car as it is now?

 

Yes, I plan on running it this weekend, as is, for opening day at the track. Weather permitting.

 

Mightymouse, please don't take any of my post personal. After all, you didn't build or tune the TTi race kit (or the street kit for that matter). I'm just making kit vs kit comparisons...not Rob vs MM comparisons.

 

none taken, i am completely comfortable with what i have and what it does

 

I'm honestly glad to hear that.


(wow...4 non-argumentative posts back and forth between Rob and MM....I bet it's pretty darn cold in Hell right about now... )

 

Not sure about hell being cold, but here in Hawaii its humid, and theres a bad storm in route.

Anyway. Good reporting Rob, as usual you covered all the bases and thoroughly.

I hope that the drama of all this kit, that kit will stop soon. In that light, I am waiting to see Robs track times backing his power claims. And as mentioned in the incon thread, if noone wants to copy it, and theres a new in box for sale in August 04 then I will buy it. The only thing bad I have rad about the Incon TT is the way it went out!

 

well I cant wait to see your race kit, but I think that there is power to be made with the TTi kit as well. If not then some of us will have to jump over to either their new log that is larger or something from you.

you however wont sell components of your kit. I have upgraded most of the turbo tech kit except for hte log, so I cant justify spending 7k on your kit just for a manifold.

I cant wait to see your race kit rob let some pics out as soon as you can

thanks
ed

 

Don't look for good track times this weekend. Still the stock 125,000 mile rear end in the car. And I for one have never even changed the fluid in it!
I'm just going to baby it off the line, and hope to see some mph.

The new rear end is going in next week. Along with a Harlan 2 Step box (I hope!). Then we'll hang our ***** out there the following weekend.

Of course, this is only if it doesn't blow up first.....

 

rob also,
how much power do you think it is worth to move hte waste gate to the front of hte log???

I can move it on the TTi kit and we can see I just wonder if it is worth the time and effort

ed

 

69firebird - I really don't know how much power. I think it's more of an efficiency issue. I just know that it should ALWAYS be after all 8 cylinders. Otherwise, you have a "lop-sided" engine. Make sense?

 

Blow it up or die trying right?

 

yeah it makes sense, but I was wondering if it would really help out all that much.
I think that I am going to upgrade to turbo techs larger manifold and I may try this on the old manifold before I stop using it. or who knows.

I need TTi to send me my cross over so I can actually start the car.

Rob while I have your attention, I sent you an e-mail yesterday, I was wondering how much your 57 lb/hr injectors were, i have not herd just curious
thanks
ed
firebird455@onebox.com

 

We get the 57lb'ers straight through Racetronix.com. You can check their website for a current price.

 

Where are the coolers located relative to the turbos?

Was this at startup? or after some driving?

curious...............

BTW the point I was trying to make is on a road course your constantly on the move---->airflow

 

hell I monitored my IAT (read: non turbo) at idle sitting for a call to the stage and it rises just as bad, but once I roll it drops just as well. I would say that it the temps would also rise using a Water to Air IC at idle. Why not use a small electric fan on, pusher type on the IC, or run a separate pair of ICs like used on the ATI Kit?

 

Thanks Rob for your input. The 3" dp I had was 3" all the way back and was a tight fit but workable...George made it. Interesting info on the log diameter. THAT is something I had never considered. Preload the rear as much as you can with the clutch...my stock rear lasted awhile on a m-6 with over 600 rwtq for quite awhile. I know you are pushing much more tho.

 

Yes the TTi DP is 3" for all the length.
its no doubt that QMP used better parts like intercooler and wastegate

i think if you replace those on the TTi kit it will make some good improvements.

AND ROB i am PISSED at you, running that stock rear! ah what a waste. I wish you would have put in that 12 bolt or 9" by now. Do you at least have a alumium cover on it??
ANyways cant wait to see it on saturday, its suppose to be nice in cinnci then. should make for some good times.....er i mean MPH.

 

Smokinhawk - I guess you are just going to have to be "pissed" at me. The rear end hasn't even shown up from Moser yet. I ordered it 2 weeks ago, but they were waiting on a part for it. It's supposed to be here either Friday or Monday.
And no, it doesn't even have an alum cover on the stock rear. Like I said, I haven't even changed the fluid in it! For all I know, it the original 125,000 mile fluid in it.

Like I said, bring a bucket and clean up supplies Saturday....