Project: Disposable Turbo/blowthrough 5.3.
06-09-2011, 10:16 AM
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Project: Disposable Turbo/blowthrough 5.3. Hey guys! I found a 5.3 for the boat, I wont see it until the end of June but my buddy is going to get it for me this weekend.
I've got a little spare time, so while Im on the road Im going to order parts so I can start messing with it when I get home.
I'm keeping this VERY "low cost" but I want to spend my money where it will do the most good. Im going for a "disposable" engine. If I nuke the 5.3, I can go grab another for >500$ and be back on the lake the next weekend. I plan on using ebay turbos as well. My goal is 600fwhp for less than $2500 carb to pan. If it last this season I will be more than happy, dont bother telling me the ebay stuff is junk. I already know, but this is more of a "hey yall watch this!" kind of project. If it all works out, I can swap over to better parts over the winter. I plan on pushing it as far as it will go, I feel like 600fwhp is a very reasonable goal but from what I've read that number is extremely conservative. Hell I might blow this first engine up just running it on the dyno haha.
What cam would you put in a 5.3 for a turbo build? I've read people like the Zo6 cams, but I'd like something that sounds a little rougher if it's close in price. I'll need lifters, push rods, and valve springs too so what do you guys suggest? Also where do you suggest buying these parts from, I'm new to LSX builds, been playing with Turbo Regals/Grand Nationals for a few years.
I really wanted to go EFI, but if I want to get this thing on the water this season I'm going to have to go with a Blowthrough carb. Any suggestions there? This is something I am willing to spend money on to get it right the first time.
My plans right now are:
- 5.3
- E85 no intercooler.
- twin GT45 ebay turbos ( Physically HUGE, but no space constraints! haha)
- Ebay waste gates
- 2010 camaro manifolds flipped forward and up, turbo flanges welded on.
- intake?
- Carb
- Cam
- Ignition?
- attempt to make it as ridiculous looking as possible lol
Feel free to suggest places to buy parts.
I've got a little spare time, so while Im on the road Im going to order parts so I can start messing with it when I get home.
I'm keeping this VERY "low cost" but I want to spend my money where it will do the most good. Im going for a "disposable" engine. If I nuke the 5.3, I can go grab another for >500$ and be back on the lake the next weekend. I plan on using ebay turbos as well. My goal is 600fwhp for less than $2500 carb to pan. If it last this season I will be more than happy, dont bother telling me the ebay stuff is junk. I already know, but this is more of a "hey yall watch this!" kind of project. If it all works out, I can swap over to better parts over the winter. I plan on pushing it as far as it will go, I feel like 600fwhp is a very reasonable goal but from what I've read that number is extremely conservative. Hell I might blow this first engine up just running it on the dyno haha.
What cam would you put in a 5.3 for a turbo build? I've read people like the Zo6 cams, but I'd like something that sounds a little rougher if it's close in price. I'll need lifters, push rods, and valve springs too so what do you guys suggest? Also where do you suggest buying these parts from, I'm new to LSX builds, been playing with Turbo Regals/Grand Nationals for a few years.
I really wanted to go EFI, but if I want to get this thing on the water this season I'm going to have to go with a Blowthrough carb. Any suggestions there? This is something I am willing to spend money on to get it right the first time.
My plans right now are:
- 5.3
- E85 no intercooler.
- twin GT45 ebay turbos ( Physically HUGE, but no space constraints! haha)
- Ebay waste gates
- 2010 camaro manifolds flipped forward and up, turbo flanges welded on.
- intake?
- Carb
- Cam
- Ignition?
- attempt to make it as ridiculous looking as possible lol
Feel free to suggest places to buy parts.
Last edited by Adam Connell; 06-09-2011 at 10:28 AM.
06-09-2011, 12:58 PM
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Funny thing is there's no boat yet! Im starting from a blank slate, which is pretty refreshing to be honest. I've always bought a project and then figured out the details. Im doing it backwards this time so I can find the "perfect" project.
Im looking for a good 70's-80's jet boat with a nice Berkley pump and a blown engine. There are a few I have gone and looked at, and a few more I am considering. Im trying to find something that has been "restored" at some time recently, and just has engine problems. We just sold our pontoon boat right before I left, and that's what has me on this new tangent. If I find a running one for the right price I may just pick it up and sell the engine it comes with.
The nice thing about the engine though is that I can build everything keeping in mind the location of the motor plates, and then take it to the local engine dyno and test it before I drop it in. That's my plan now, build and test the engine while Im finding the boat.
If it hasn't sold by the time I get home at the end of June, I'm about 90% set on buying this boat.
Below is roughly how the engine will be laid out. The turbos will sit higher and slightly farther back, but this is the "look" I am going for.
Im looking for a good 70's-80's jet boat with a nice Berkley pump and a blown engine. There are a few I have gone and looked at, and a few more I am considering. Im trying to find something that has been "restored" at some time recently, and just has engine problems. We just sold our pontoon boat right before I left, and that's what has me on this new tangent. If I find a running one for the right price I may just pick it up and sell the engine it comes with.
The nice thing about the engine though is that I can build everything keeping in mind the location of the motor plates, and then take it to the local engine dyno and test it before I drop it in. That's my plan now, build and test the engine while Im finding the boat.
If it hasn't sold by the time I get home at the end of June, I'm about 90% set on buying this boat.
Below is roughly how the engine will be laid out. The turbos will sit higher and slightly farther back, but this is the "look" I am going for.
06-09-2011, 01:28 PM
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Those turbos are probably too big for a twin setup on stock internals or a small low rpm motor.
Twin 58mm's will break stock pistons.
The cheap route would be twin GN turbos which will do 700fhp easy.
Twin 61mm will do 1200 fhp easy, good spool etc
Cam- Speed Inc TU1 or TU2
Intake - Edelbrock or Mast Motorsports for a carb.
Carb - Check out the carb board on The Turbo Forums.
Ignition- Either MSD CNP driver box, Fast XIM, or distributor conversion.
Twin 58mm's will break stock pistons.
The cheap route would be twin GN turbos which will do 700fhp easy.
Twin 61mm will do 1200 fhp easy, good spool etc
Cam- Speed Inc TU1 or TU2
Intake - Edelbrock or Mast Motorsports for a carb.
Carb - Check out the carb board on The Turbo Forums.
Ignition- Either MSD CNP driver box, Fast XIM, or distributor conversion.
06-09-2011, 03:40 PM
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i'd run a single gt45, im planning on running one on my 5.3 and making ~200hp more than you. you'd need more like ~500 cubes to spool 2 of em, they have 1.05 ex housings.
to be honest, it'll be almost cheaper to run EFI and the engine will be much happier in part throttle and low boost, which you may spend alot of time at. if you do go EFI, intake wise, i'd just run a stock LS1 or truck manifold, and some 80lb injectors.
it'd also be interesting to run a cheap ebay A2W IC with a the lake as a water source.
valvetrain wise, since you're on a budget, a z06 cam would be fine, i'd run some patriot gold valve springs or a similar dual spring setup and hardened pushrods.
otherwise, looks great. keep it simple, stupid.
to be honest, it'll be almost cheaper to run EFI and the engine will be much happier in part throttle and low boost, which you may spend alot of time at. if you do go EFI, intake wise, i'd just run a stock LS1 or truck manifold, and some 80lb injectors.
it'd also be interesting to run a cheap ebay A2W IC with a the lake as a water source.
valvetrain wise, since you're on a budget, a z06 cam would be fine, i'd run some patriot gold valve springs or a similar dual spring setup and hardened pushrods.
otherwise, looks great. keep it simple, stupid.
06-09-2011, 03:57 PM
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Weird. I was just talking about this yesterday. I'm doing a 5.3 with a TSP220/220 cam and either a single or twin gt45! I'm in for details on turbo choice. I thought a 5.3 would spool twin gt45 without too much of a problem.
Is this what you are looking to go with?: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT45-...item256477d0c0
Is this what you are looking to go with?: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT45-...item256477d0c0
06-10-2011, 12:07 AM
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I agree, twin 45's is way to much, when you consider those turbos can put out around 1000hp each. Maybe a little less. I'd probably go with twin gt30's. They'll spool a lot faster than the huge 45's.
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06-11-2011, 08:58 PM
#12
Big turbos or twin turbos dont push more air thru the motor.....
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
06-12-2011, 06:34 PM
#13
Big turbos or twin turbos dont push more air thru the motor.....
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
06-14-2011, 11:28 AM
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It would be PERFECT on a jet, since you are typically pumping lake water through the exhaust manifolds (on a jacketed setup) first anyway, to preheat the water before entering the engine.
You could easily run the A2W in line with the open cooling system. The IC would not be a problem as far as flow restriction either.
I am really thinking of buying a new turbo for my truck, and putting the S475 on my boat this winter...
That opens up a whole new can of worms with me though, since my pump is stock with an aluminum impeller...could get real expensive in a hurry.
06-14-2011, 06:42 PM
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I've thought of this before as well.
It would be PERFECT on a jet, since you are typically pumping lake water through the exhaust manifolds (on a jacketed setup) first anyway, to preheat the water before entering the engine.
You could easily run the A2W in line with the open cooling system. The IC would not be a problem as far as flow restriction either.
I am really thinking of buying a new turbo for my truck, and putting the S475 on my boat this winter...
That opens up a whole new can of worms with me though, since my pump is stock with an aluminum impeller...could get real expensive in a hurry.
It would be PERFECT on a jet, since you are typically pumping lake water through the exhaust manifolds (on a jacketed setup) first anyway, to preheat the water before entering the engine.
You could easily run the A2W in line with the open cooling system. The IC would not be a problem as far as flow restriction either.
I am really thinking of buying a new turbo for my truck, and putting the S475 on my boat this winter...
That opens up a whole new can of worms with me though, since my pump is stock with an aluminum impeller...could get real expensive in a hurry.
Big turbos or twin turbos dont push more air thru the motor.....
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
You pick a turbo based on looking at 2 things at once, estimated HP at a given boost level. Not one or the other but both at the same time. So lets say you are thinking 700hp @ 18 psi, then you want a turbo that is EFFICIENT at that flow level @ that 18 psi boost level. The other option would be to get two turbos that are EFFICIENT at supplying 350 hp of air each at the same 18 psi boost level.
Turbos will spin faster or slower depending on how much exhaust is going thru them. This will then make the compressor side flow more or less air depending on the speed the turbo is spinning. Thats why all turbos will state a hp range. The same turbo may work good on both a 400 hp 10 psi motor, and a 600 hp 18 psi motor. The turbo will be spinning faster on the 600 hp 18psi motor than on the 400 hp motor @ 10psi. So when a turbo spins faster it wants to do 2 things:
1. pump more air thru it (more cfm or lb/min)
2. build more pressure in the air (boost)
If you pick a turbo that is too small it will have to flow to much air to pressurize the intake manifold to the boost you are looking for. The waste gate will stay shut too much exhaust will go thru the turbine, the turbo will spin to fast and come apart.
If you pick a turbo thats to big it will not have enough air passing thru it for the boost you are trying to achieve. The compressor will go into surge. This will take a turbo out very quickly also.
Do some good research on what combos made what hp at what boost levels. You will then get a good feel for what boost you will need to run to hit your HP goal. Like some one stated earlier a pair of GN turbos may be a real good option. The old school turbo stuff is going cheap with the new billet GT wheels and such. You could probably pick up a pair of stockers or small street GN turbos for less than those ebay junkers and they will spool faster and make more power and probably last WAY longer.
Jay
No idea, but it's not an LSX setup. Just a setup I found on the web.
06-14-2011, 06:52 PM
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Dont have much to updated on the project... work has consumed me for the last week.
Still debating quite a few things in my head... Twins will wind up being a neater package, but there will be more cost involved.
My buddy who I originally tried to talk into building me a set of log manifolds is trying to talk me into a blower setup now. The thing is, that's gunna cost me a dollar or two as well... I originally thought "options" would be fun, now it just seems like a bigger headache lol
Still debating quite a few things in my head... Twins will wind up being a neater package, but there will be more cost involved.
My buddy who I originally tried to talk into building me a set of log manifolds is trying to talk me into a blower setup now. The thing is, that's gunna cost me a dollar or two as well... I originally thought "options" would be fun, now it just seems like a bigger headache lol
06-15-2011, 12:57 AM
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you may also consider an ebay 5.0 shorty header or a set of _______ manifolds, PD headers are good quality but you could do a little better for your $$$, especially if you're just gonna cut em up.
06-15-2011, 10:15 AM
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If I go ahead with my turbo setup (and lets be honest...once you have one turbo LS, you want more...) I will be using the ford manifolds that I adapted to the engine. I will just make some pipes to bolt to the end of the manifold, and to go to a merge, and put a big single on it. Almost like it was meant to be...
