Looking at some of the SC guys running say 15psi boost they make around 600+ hp. The few turbo guys running over 600+ hp are running way less boost.

 

The SC pulls alot of HP from the motor to make that power and the Turbo is not pullling hardly any power from the engine compared to the SC. So less boost makes more power.

 

Whats the main trade off for SC guys, is the tuning that much easier? What other benefits? Seems like they cost about the same, and use the same style head unit, but the # are much lower for SC. Weird that a SC would even sell.

Couldnt a SC be set to allow for "dial a boost", like the turbo guys can turn up the boost. Seems like you can take and pulley a SC to say max of 20psi, but use a BOV, or wastegate (which ever it is that controls a turbo output) and dial it down for daily street use, then dial it up and race?

 

SC are alot easier to tune and there are alot less problems for daily driving. Turbos are high maintnence exhaust leaks, frequent oil changes and limited supply of real experienced tuners.

 

superchargers are also easier to install since you dont have to redo part of your exhaust and/or relocate things to make them fit. turbos are more complex and problematic to install and tune. just because the price of the kits are ~ the same doesnt mean getting them in the car and working will cost the same. especially if you dont do the install and tune.

 

B.P.TA, yeah I got that part. Helped a friend install his D1SC, not the funnest, but thinking of doing a turbo and looks like more beer in the fridge will be an order. Just seems so inefficient to go SC when you are really losing so much power. Not sure the hysical size, but lets say the T76 compared to a D1sc, the T76 is a hundred RWHP over the D1SC on average if not more.

 

(IMO)

apples to oranges...hard to compare the two.


it would be like saying... F1/YSI compared to a T25, F1/YSI is ...etc..etc.

 

Just trying to make a similar size comparison. There has to be a SC and Turbo head unit that are same size or awefully damn close. I am not trying to start an arguement over the which one is better, just get all the details inside for each. Heat, belts, piing size etc....seems like SC is at a diadvantage.

 

Well I have both procharger and twin turbos, and I have to say Turbos are better! After you buy the SC then you still need headers and exhaust! Horsepower on SC are done by pulleys that cost money and are not as easy to change as say dial for a BOV.

And if it matters to the owner drivablity on a turbo car it is like stock tell you make boost. So my mom or girlfriend can move it with out worry. Oh and if a turbo car and a SC car pulled up to a light you would know what car was SC. I may be just me but I don't like that nonstop noise!

 

A supercharged engine will have more parasitic loss because the crank is also driving the blower.

In the grand scheme of things turbo cars can be faster like in some competitive Mustang racing classes but supercharged cars tend to be more consistent and easier to launch.

 

John, can you go into a little more detail about the launch? Is it becasue the turbos spool up traction is gone? and with the SC the boost builds based off the rpm, more linear?

 

I suspect that John is referring to the fact that since the SC is crank driven, you're going to find it easier to consistantly launch at a set RPM with a known amount of boost time after time. This is going to be more true with an automatic car with a good torque converter.

With a Turbo, the automatic may have some fluctuations in the boost depending on how you're trying to hold it with a quick staging cycle on a pro light or a variable load torque converter. The M6 cars using a 2-step are able to build boost but you're not going to get the light at the same time in the 2-step stutter sequence each time which will allow for more fluctuation than you would find in the SC car.

In the end, 20 launches into the setup and you'll know what you want each time.

Rick

 

when is someone going to turbo charge and supercharge a car, like the fokes in the tractor trailer ind. I once saw a large turbo mounted ontop of a 6-71 on a mack at my friends, dads shop.
Twins and a magnacharger would look good under the hood.

 

But Magnacharger doesnt make a Twin Screw for F bodies, I am a little crazy, so I would try it

 

This link will give u an idea on whats the difference between SC's and Turbo's in HP per Psi. https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/137685-efficiency-fi-setups-out-there-ii-final-results.html

All the info in the link are from real users so there are no advertisements here.

 

well, a centrifugal supercharger is basically a crank driven turbo so if you look at the flow and then the hp@that flow rate you should get an accurate comparison

 

Was talking about the whole SC being a belt driven turbo, its just so hard to understans if a SC loses so much more power due to being driven then why even go SC instead of turbo? I guess this is more of a user comfort level. They both seem to cost the same.
Got a new question, hopefully it gets reviewed here.

Cant you put a wastegate on a SC setup, pulley it to max rpm allowed, say 25 psi, and then tune it, using the Wastegate to dial down the max boost, venting anything over "X" psi while on street, then like the turbo guys, turn the dial and up the boost? Seems like the same concept to me since I am not exactly sure how it all works.

 

This is how I look at the Centrifugal SC vs. Turbo comparison. U can’t go wrong with a SC with anything over 1200CFM on a stock CID LS1 engine. Vortech or ATI will make good power on a LS1 at any kind of boost. Some people say a SC will lose power because it has to spin the crank. I say that is true, when u launch the car for the 1st 1-2 sec, but after the crank gets momentum, the SC won’t be losing that much power from the already spinning crank. For example, look at a bike and a car with similar power to weight ratio. The bike will still have an advantage over the car from a launch, but it will lose to the same car from a roll because the car has the momentum which makes the weight less effective. Think of it this way.... A Crank has to move the SC at low RPM via belts and the Turbo has to spool up at lower RPM's via exhuast pressure. A SC will start making its power in the midrange and carry it to the red line despite the SC size (1200-1500CFM). When u shift ur car u will get back to the sweet point of the SC anyways.

Now when I look at the turbo, there are alot of factors gets involved in making a good turbo kit and good power. For example, the size of the exhaust housing could spool a turbo fast, but restrict the same turbo from making power top end and u will notice the power dropping early. Another example in turbo decision is the manifolds.....To make good power and fast spool u need equal length manifolds which are really hard to make on a LS1 with a single turbo. People sometimes say equal length are not important, but if u think about all the cracks in the manifold especially the side of the turbo u will know that equal length is important. I have a dyno sheet in front of me of a Twin Turbo Viper vs. SC'd Viper. If anyone cares I can post it so u guys can see exactly what I just said above. The turbo makes great TQ and HP in the midrange and falls off after that which is good for a 60ft with nice pair of slicks, but after that the SC will have the advantage due to the area under the curve in the higher RPM. As I said before, u have to know what u want to choose a Turbo that suits ur needs. U can make the turbo give u better low-mid range power than a SC and u also can make a turbo give u better top end power than a SC, but u will have to sacrifice one to get the other. U can’t have both worlds in a turbo. A SC can give u both for the people who doesn’t want to worry about a Turbo choice or Accessories. Just do a search and u will see how many turbo owners changed their Turbo size, or exhaust housing, etc... to make the optimum power they are looking for.


To answer ur other question, I did ask the same question before about a wastegate and a SC and I didn’t get a positive response. Anyways I did some searching and I think HKS has some kind of valve that will work perfectly with a SC to vent the desired boost. The only problem is that u can’t set it from the inside of the car like a wastegate via boost controller. U will have to go in the engine bay and change the spring within the valve or something like that. It still something nice to have and easier than a pulley change and u will get full boost at very low RPMs if ur running an 11psi pulley and venting 3 psi or so. U could also look into some kind of water/alky or methanol injection if u wanna run high boost. Some of those systems are really nice and they will auto activate after certain boost u set it at.
Sorry for the long write up, but that just my .02 cent.

 

Wow, now thats an answer! Thanks and no problem for the long type, I enjoyed the read. As I have a year to stew on the next setup while sitting in Afghanistan, I have been thinking only about turbo or TT. I had to stop and remember my buddies D1 we just installed, although it rather pissed me off 2wks after install he sucked up enough water to hydrolock it.
Anyway, was thinking the D1 will not give me the power I want. So, I looked at ProChargers site, and seen the same info, flow flow flow. I was fixed on the F1 or larger, but not sure which will fit in our cars, and then the whole Belt slippage issue. I now see a post about a spring loaded tensioner, nice setup. I would want a cog just for that peace of mind, but someone needs to perfect the damn setup first. Thanks to all those currently setting up cogs.
I like the Novi 2k on my friends cars and one on a Dakota, nice setup seems stout as hell and the Dak also has the SMC alky kit with boost reference injection. Nice.
Keeping my options open, would love to see or hear about success stories with street driveable, race proven performing LS1s using F1 or larger.

Thanks.
Charlie.

 

If only Paxton would make a kit for Fbods, my other buddy is a dealer

And the Magnacharger...oh what a nice day that would be!