Injectors in intake pipe...
09-21-2011, 05:42 PM
#42
The way the rule is written, it seems like you may be able to get away with spraying the outside of the IC with a 50/50 methanol/water mix which almost turns your IC into an ice cube, which will drop IATs signifigantly.
Maybe even CO2 spraybar system or some other means of just keeping the IC very cold?
Maybe even CO2 spraybar system or some other means of just keeping the IC very cold?
09-21-2011, 08:09 PM
#44
I am running a single plain style intake with an elbow. I wonder if installing the injectors in the elbow would be exceptable?
Chris and Woody, I have several Mike Moran 500# injectors. One of those in the plenum area would be more then enough fueling for this sort of thing. I would think the lower (clossest to the head) injectors would be left to run sequential, and the plenum injectors would be better fired as batch fired.
As someone else asked, I do have a few Megas Squirt MS3EXP's running on a few cars here and I have one for mine. I have had no issue with them and really have not found a reason to choise a BS3 or Holley Dominator EFI over the MS3. They are less expensive but require the end user to wire everything up them selves. If you can do your own wiring they are a very good PCM. If I run dual sets of injectors I will install my MS3 to run all the fueling, maybe the timing too, and leave the factory PCM to run the dahs and work the trans. You can get the MS3 to work the trans, but not the engine at the same time. What I understand you would have to do is use the MS3 for the engine, and a MS2 for the trans. The would have a comunication harnes to tie the two together.
The can bus in the dash is a different story. One would need to know the can bus, and know how to write the code in the MS to be able to cominucate with it. That is were I have meet my limit. I can not do code or can bus, but I know people that do.
Chris and Woody, I have several Mike Moran 500# injectors. One of those in the plenum area would be more then enough fueling for this sort of thing. I would think the lower (clossest to the head) injectors would be left to run sequential, and the plenum injectors would be better fired as batch fired.
As someone else asked, I do have a few Megas Squirt MS3EXP's running on a few cars here and I have one for mine. I have had no issue with them and really have not found a reason to choise a BS3 or Holley Dominator EFI over the MS3. They are less expensive but require the end user to wire everything up them selves. If you can do your own wiring they are a very good PCM. If I run dual sets of injectors I will install my MS3 to run all the fueling, maybe the timing too, and leave the factory PCM to run the dahs and work the trans. You can get the MS3 to work the trans, but not the engine at the same time. What I understand you would have to do is use the MS3 for the engine, and a MS2 for the trans. The would have a comunication harnes to tie the two together.
The can bus in the dash is a different story. One would need to know the can bus, and know how to write the code in the MS to be able to cominucate with it. That is were I have meet my limit. I can not do code or can bus, but I know people that do.
09-21-2011, 09:07 PM
#45
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I am running a single plain style intake with an elbow. I wonder if installing the injectors in the elbow would be exceptable?
Chris and Woody, I have several Mike Moran 500# injectors. One of those in the plenum area would be more then enough fueling for this sort of thing. I would think the lower (clossest to the head) injectors would be left to run sequential, and the plenum injectors would be better fired as batch fired.
Chris and Woody, I have several Mike Moran 500# injectors. One of those in the plenum area would be more then enough fueling for this sort of thing. I would think the lower (clossest to the head) injectors would be left to run sequential, and the plenum injectors would be better fired as batch fired.
09-21-2011, 09:46 PM
#46
Maybe I should just go with my original idea of runing a set of small injectors and a set of large injectors for drivablity reasons and idle quality reasons. All in the intake runners.
09-21-2011, 10:16 PM
#47
Here is what I would do for best idle and drivability.
Have one in the "stock" or "generic" location on the intake, these will be 60# or comparable for the main fueling up to 100kpa. Over 100kpa a second set of slightly bigger injectors, maybe 96# will be used under boost and these will be high up in the intake runners to make the most of the cooling properties of the fuel.
This way you get the ones in the generic location spraying at the intake valve, and the ones that are mounted high up in the runner's only come on under boost when the cooling is needed.
As long as you don't explain how it "really" works and just tell people that they work all the time or as octane on demand, what can they say? You not using "meth injection" or any type of chemical intercooling, your just supplying the motor with fuel, albeit a fuel that has better cooling properties than unleaded or leaded race gas. The only way anyone could complain about this the way it'd be set-up, is they'd have to argue that E-85 is an advantage in itself, not in the way you have it set-up since you are just fueling the motor's fuel needs.
Have one in the "stock" or "generic" location on the intake, these will be 60# or comparable for the main fueling up to 100kpa. Over 100kpa a second set of slightly bigger injectors, maybe 96# will be used under boost and these will be high up in the intake runners to make the most of the cooling properties of the fuel.
This way you get the ones in the generic location spraying at the intake valve, and the ones that are mounted high up in the runner's only come on under boost when the cooling is needed.
As long as you don't explain how it "really" works and just tell people that they work all the time or as octane on demand, what can they say? You not using "meth injection" or any type of chemical intercooling, your just supplying the motor with fuel, albeit a fuel that has better cooling properties than unleaded or leaded race gas. The only way anyone could complain about this the way it'd be set-up, is they'd have to argue that E-85 is an advantage in itself, not in the way you have it set-up since you are just fueling the motor's fuel needs.
09-21-2011, 10:53 PM
#48
^ "
The reason for the change was improved fuel atomization at 10,000 rpm
Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0704_pitstop_fuel_injector_location/photo_02.html#ixzz1YcW7YiML"
Obviously, it does have a difference, but I'm not sure how many people will be spinning that kind of RPM.
The reason for the change was improved fuel atomization at 10,000 rpm
Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0704_pitstop_fuel_injector_location/photo_02.html#ixzz1YcW7YiML"
Obviously, it does have a difference, but I'm not sure how many people will be spinning that kind of RPM.
09-22-2011, 10:44 AM
#49
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Here is what I would do for best idle and drivability.
Have one in the "stock" or "generic" location on the intake, these will be 60# or comparable for the main fueling up to 100kpa. Over 100kpa a second set of slightly bigger injectors, maybe 96# will be used under boost and these will be high up in the intake runners to make the most of the cooling properties of the fuel.
This way you get the ones in the generic location spraying at the intake valve, and the ones that are mounted high up in the runner's only come on under boost when the cooling is needed.
As long as you don't explain how it "really" works and just tell people that they work all the time or as octane on demand, what can they say? You not using "meth injection" or any type of chemical intercooling, your just supplying the motor with fuel, albeit a fuel that has better cooling properties than unleaded or leaded race gas. The only way anyone could complain about this the way it'd be set-up, is they'd have to argue that E-85 is an advantage in itself, not in the way you have it set-up since you are just fueling the motor's fuel needs.
Have one in the "stock" or "generic" location on the intake, these will be 60# or comparable for the main fueling up to 100kpa. Over 100kpa a second set of slightly bigger injectors, maybe 96# will be used under boost and these will be high up in the intake runners to make the most of the cooling properties of the fuel.
This way you get the ones in the generic location spraying at the intake valve, and the ones that are mounted high up in the runner's only come on under boost when the cooling is needed.
As long as you don't explain how it "really" works and just tell people that they work all the time or as octane on demand, what can they say? You not using "meth injection" or any type of chemical intercooling, your just supplying the motor with fuel, albeit a fuel that has better cooling properties than unleaded or leaded race gas. The only way anyone could complain about this the way it'd be set-up, is they'd have to argue that E-85 is an advantage in itself, not in the way you have it set-up since you are just fueling the motor's fuel needs.
09-22-2011, 02:09 PM
#50
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I will leave that decision to the ones in charge. This is an interesting idea though.
Maybe I should just go with my original idea of runing a set of small injectors and a set of large injectors for drivablity reasons and idle quality reasons. All in the intake runners.
Maybe I should just go with my original idea of runing a set of small injectors and a set of large injectors for drivablity reasons and idle quality reasons. All in the intake runners.
09-23-2011, 07:15 AM
#52
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Well if u have ever run a heads up class you want there to be some parity in the class so we cant just go wild with the FI stuff and not give the nitrous guys something. Honestly with the rules that we have now its a very tight class and we aim to keep it that way.
