Another Rear mount build, but it was coming anyway :)
08-14-2012, 04:51 PM
#61
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Thread Starter
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ideas and readin again.
thinking of just throwing in a +02 Zo6, TU0 or TU1 cam in it and calling it a day then turboing it? still wondering on heads. so many choices. realy hate it some times lol
you think you know what you want and then you research more and find alittle more out.... sooooo difficult lol
thinking of just throwing in a +02 Zo6, TU0 or TU1 cam in it and calling it a day then turboing it? still wondering on heads. so many choices. realy hate it some times lol
you think you know what you want and then you research more and find alittle more out.... sooooo difficult lol
my babys on a boat headin back to the states. get it back in OCT. ill be there in Sept.
08-15-2012, 11:58 AM
#63
TECH Resident
ideas and readin again.
thinking of just throwing in a +02 Zo6, TU0 or TU1 cam in it and calling it a day then turboing it? still wondering on heads. so many choices. realy hate it some times lol
you think you know what you want and then you research more and find alittle more out.... sooooo difficult lol
thinking of just throwing in a +02 Zo6, TU0 or TU1 cam in it and calling it a day then turboing it? still wondering on heads. so many choices. realy hate it some times lol
you think you know what you want and then you research more and find alittle more out.... sooooo difficult lol
Just my opinion.
You will hate yourself later if you just put in the Z06 cam.
08-15-2012, 12:31 PM
#64
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If you're going to do it, do it once. I would recommend the TU1 Cam. That will give you all the flow you need (on stock heads) on your stock bottom end. Once you go forged, THEN do the heads. Right now, you can put in the TU1 and just do springs without removing the heads. Later (if/when you go forged), do the heads, head gaskets, ARP head studs, etc. With the TU1, you'll max out your pistons/rods (bang) before you max your head flow.
Just my opinion.
You will hate yourself later if you just put in the Z06 cam.
Just my opinion.
You will hate yourself later if you just put in the Z06 cam.
LT headers... unless of course the new cam will take advantage of the free'er flowing exhast and just wrap them... i might have to test that. one run with the LTs on and then go back to stock manifolds. just hate to undo all my pretty nice work i did lol
i just dont want a really lopy cam with a turbo setup. a very SLIGHT lope i can deal with but i really want to keep it somewhat around the stock idle level.
i think i might just go with that. so a TU1 with the stock heads for now? the only reason im thinking heads is to do it all at once. like heads, lifters, pushrods, timing chain, gaskets, studs, and oil pump. like you said, do it once lol
a few questions ive been wondering that i just cant seem to get a clear anwser on. alot of people ask, but keep getting mixed feelings.
1) im really having a hard time with going to the 317s becasue with compression lose, i know its only a little low end torque, but with a rear mount, im afraid it will cause MORE spool issue and i really dont want that. plus on top of that i get both plus and minus for going this route. most of the time alot of poeple are saying that it really dogs out on low/no boost levels. i know with a Tu cam it will be alittle better but im not gonna put 15+ PSI on my car so im at a lose right now.
2) Im thinking i might go with 243s heads to get a little more flow and power for N/A/lower boost levels, and then get one of these TU cams. still wondering if the TU1 is more then i need compared to the TU0. i think with the 243s on slightly thicker cometic MSL gaskets then the stock level to keep the compression alittle lower then 10.5(i think thats the 243 ratio).
im thinking with the added flow, slightly higher compression, an intercooler and maybe meth (yes im think that now too lol) and 8-10# of boost, i could achieve nice reliable 550ish HP with alot of usable torque and have more to give when i want to step up to more power.
3) Also, with my 3200 stall, which TU cam would be best suited for my stall?
4) what pushrods have people used for a TU1 cam and stock LS1 heads or 243/779?
5) and with that, what sized gaskets do i get for stock LS1 heads and what for LS6 heads?
6) the LS2 timing chain is the chain to get right?
7) ARP head bolts or head studs. and how are the studs installed compared to the bolts.
8) is the LS6 (01+) oil pump plenty for the oil needs for my setup?
9) ls2 lifter cups right?
10) are the LS7 lifters needed and if so, does it change the pushrod hieght or are they the same size as my current stockers?
11) Pac beehive springs at .600 would be fine for the TU cams right?
thoughts?
Last edited by JoshuaGrooms83; 08-15-2012 at 01:07 PM.
08-15-2012, 01:26 PM
#65
TECH Resident
Wow... there's a lot of If/thens in those questions... If Heads, then... etc..
Will add what I can... see below.
Hope this helps!
Will add what I can... see below.
yeah im really leaning towards the TU cams. the Z06 cam i hear is ok but i hear it gives up some down low a bit. not really what i want. i want a nice braod torque band with a little top end flow to get moving without running out of steam. the T76 will keep up with my stock engine, probly could give more then what my engine could handle lol your definitly right. i really dont want to keep going in there and messing with stuff. im already still hating myself cause im gonna have to go in there again and get ride of my
LT headers... unless of course the new cam will take advantage of the free'er flowing exhast and just wrap them... i might have to test that. one run with the LTs on and then go back to stock manifolds. just hate to undo all my pretty nice work i did lol
Since you already have the LTs, I would say wrap the hell out of them first and see how that goes. If you're still not happy, THEN try swapping back to Shorties or Stock Manifolds.
i just dont want a really lopy cam with a turbo setup. a very SLIGHT lope i can deal with but i really want to keep it somewhat around the stock idle level. I think the TU1 is just a slight amount of lope.
i think i might just go with that. so a TU1 with the stock heads for now? the only reason im thinking heads is to do it all at once. like heads, lifters, pushrods, timing chain, gaskets, studs, and oil pump. like you said, do it once lol You won't really be duplicating anything if you wait on replacing the heads, other than springs.
a few questions ive been wondering that i just cant seem to get a clear anwser on. alot of people ask, but keep getting mixed feelings.
1) im really having a hard time with going to the 317s becasue with compression lose, i know its only a little low end torque, but with a rear mount, im afraid it will cause MORE spool issue and i really dont want that. plus on top of that i get both plus and minus for going this route. most of the time alot of poeple are saying that it really dogs out on low/no boost levels. i know with a Tu cam it will be alittle better but im not gonna put 15+ PSI on my car so im at a lose right now. Again, I would wait on the heads until you go forged. Then if you go 317s, have them milled a bit. Good flow, cost effective.
2) Im thinking i might go with 243s heads to get a little more flow and power for N/A/lower boost levels, and then get one of these TU cams. still wondering if the TU1 is more then i need compared to the TU0. i think with the 243s on slightly thicker cometic MSL gaskets then the stock level to keep the compression alittle lower then 10.5(i think thats the 243 ratio).
im thinking with the added flow, slightly higher compression, an intercooler and maybe meth (yes im think that now too lol) and 8-10# of boost, i could achieve nice reliable 550ish HP with alot of usable torque and have more to give when i want to step up to more power.
Again, wait on the heads for now, put the money towards the Methanol/water system and intercooler. The TU1 Cam should make up for the low end (out of boost) N/A power.
3) Also, with my 3200 stall, which TU cam would be best suited for my stall?
Still suggest the TU1 with your 3200. I have a Yank ss3200 and it's pretty tight/mild.
4) what pushrods have people used for a TU1 cam and stock LS1 heads or 243/779?
5) and with that, what sized gaskets do i get for stock LS1 heads and what for LS6 heads?
MLS gaskets
6) the LS2 timing chain is the chain to get right?
Can't help on this one
7) ARP head bolts or head studs. and how are the studs installed compared to the bolts.
Go with the Head Studs, less stress on the heads
8) is the LS6 (01+) oil pump plenty for the oil needs for my setup?
Can't help on this one
9) ls2 lifter cups right?
Can't help on this one
10) are the LS7 lifters needed and if so, does it change the pushrod hieght or are they the same size as my current stockers?
Can't help on this one
11) Pac beehive springs at .600 would be fine for the TU cams right?
Should be good with Pac Beehive springs, the TU0/1 cams are low enough lift.
thoughts?
LT headers... unless of course the new cam will take advantage of the free'er flowing exhast and just wrap them... i might have to test that. one run with the LTs on and then go back to stock manifolds. just hate to undo all my pretty nice work i did lol
Since you already have the LTs, I would say wrap the hell out of them first and see how that goes. If you're still not happy, THEN try swapping back to Shorties or Stock Manifolds.
i just dont want a really lopy cam with a turbo setup. a very SLIGHT lope i can deal with but i really want to keep it somewhat around the stock idle level. I think the TU1 is just a slight amount of lope.
i think i might just go with that. so a TU1 with the stock heads for now? the only reason im thinking heads is to do it all at once. like heads, lifters, pushrods, timing chain, gaskets, studs, and oil pump. like you said, do it once lol You won't really be duplicating anything if you wait on replacing the heads, other than springs.
a few questions ive been wondering that i just cant seem to get a clear anwser on. alot of people ask, but keep getting mixed feelings.
1) im really having a hard time with going to the 317s becasue with compression lose, i know its only a little low end torque, but with a rear mount, im afraid it will cause MORE spool issue and i really dont want that. plus on top of that i get both plus and minus for going this route. most of the time alot of poeple are saying that it really dogs out on low/no boost levels. i know with a Tu cam it will be alittle better but im not gonna put 15+ PSI on my car so im at a lose right now. Again, I would wait on the heads until you go forged. Then if you go 317s, have them milled a bit. Good flow, cost effective.
2) Im thinking i might go with 243s heads to get a little more flow and power for N/A/lower boost levels, and then get one of these TU cams. still wondering if the TU1 is more then i need compared to the TU0. i think with the 243s on slightly thicker cometic MSL gaskets then the stock level to keep the compression alittle lower then 10.5(i think thats the 243 ratio).
im thinking with the added flow, slightly higher compression, an intercooler and maybe meth (yes im think that now too lol) and 8-10# of boost, i could achieve nice reliable 550ish HP with alot of usable torque and have more to give when i want to step up to more power.
Again, wait on the heads for now, put the money towards the Methanol/water system and intercooler. The TU1 Cam should make up for the low end (out of boost) N/A power.
3) Also, with my 3200 stall, which TU cam would be best suited for my stall?
Still suggest the TU1 with your 3200. I have a Yank ss3200 and it's pretty tight/mild.
4) what pushrods have people used for a TU1 cam and stock LS1 heads or 243/779?
5) and with that, what sized gaskets do i get for stock LS1 heads and what for LS6 heads?
MLS gaskets
6) the LS2 timing chain is the chain to get right?
Can't help on this one
7) ARP head bolts or head studs. and how are the studs installed compared to the bolts.
Go with the Head Studs, less stress on the heads
8) is the LS6 (01+) oil pump plenty for the oil needs for my setup?
Can't help on this one
9) ls2 lifter cups right?
Can't help on this one
10) are the LS7 lifters needed and if so, does it change the pushrod hieght or are they the same size as my current stockers?
Can't help on this one
11) Pac beehive springs at .600 would be fine for the TU cams right?
Should be good with Pac Beehive springs, the TU0/1 cams are low enough lift.
thoughts?
08-31-2012, 04:38 PM
#66
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oh damn!! dont know how i missed this since ive been all over the place latly, but damn! thank you very much!! you have given me alot of info and advise thats really helped. ok let me be respectful and respond as to what ive learned and am going towards.
try and go in order to my previous post and your awnsers:
Ill stick with the LTs for now until and see how it goes. Il wrap the hell out of them. however, i might go with slightly smaller y pipe that can be welded to it. like a 2.75 so i can keep heat and velosity up
Im REALLY considering the TU1, but im still consulting with tick, speed inc, TSP, AND pat G on this to see what cam will be best suited for me. one thing that ive learned is that the lobe design has a big inpact on turbo cars and needs to be spec acordingly.
im going to HOLD off on 317 heads until i do forge my motor since i wont need to be seeing anything over 10psi anyway. when i eventually do go 317 heads, ill have them worked over alittle.
since i have a 3200 stall the cam will be in the 220 to 226 range to take advantage of the benefits. the stall was designed to be used with turbo application so i might as well use it well
when i do do heads the stock MSL gasket or LS9 gaskets are a the planned route.
LS2 chain at a miniumum is the right thing to do. LS2 chain fits and i will be doing this.
head studs it is. was leaning towards this anyway, just wasnt sure how hard they are to do with the motor in the car.
any LS6 pump past 2001 is a benefit to us lowly 98 redheaded step children lol even a stock pressure/volume one lol. ill be doing this
ls2 lifter cups but not REALLY needed but might as well for how cheap they are.
still resarching the LS7 lifter sizes but will have to measure anyway when i get heads so not too worried about it. might as well replace the lifters too while im in there.
PAC 1218 or PAC 1518 should handle anything under .600 from what i read. still wandering if i should do double springs, but dont want to wear stuff out prematurly just cause.
anywho thanks for all the help. and to everyone else thats been "patiant" with me lol just trying to understand some of the finer points
try and go in order to my previous post and your awnsers:
Ill stick with the LTs for now until and see how it goes. Il wrap the hell out of them. however, i might go with slightly smaller y pipe that can be welded to it. like a 2.75 so i can keep heat and velosity up
Im REALLY considering the TU1, but im still consulting with tick, speed inc, TSP, AND pat G on this to see what cam will be best suited for me. one thing that ive learned is that the lobe design has a big inpact on turbo cars and needs to be spec acordingly.
im going to HOLD off on 317 heads until i do forge my motor since i wont need to be seeing anything over 10psi anyway. when i eventually do go 317 heads, ill have them worked over alittle.
since i have a 3200 stall the cam will be in the 220 to 226 range to take advantage of the benefits. the stall was designed to be used with turbo application so i might as well use it well
when i do do heads the stock MSL gasket or LS9 gaskets are a the planned route.
LS2 chain at a miniumum is the right thing to do. LS2 chain fits and i will be doing this.
head studs it is. was leaning towards this anyway, just wasnt sure how hard they are to do with the motor in the car.
any LS6 pump past 2001 is a benefit to us lowly 98 redheaded step children lol even a stock pressure/volume one lol. ill be doing this
ls2 lifter cups but not REALLY needed but might as well for how cheap they are.
still resarching the LS7 lifter sizes but will have to measure anyway when i get heads so not too worried about it. might as well replace the lifters too while im in there.
PAC 1218 or PAC 1518 should handle anything under .600 from what i read. still wandering if i should do double springs, but dont want to wear stuff out prematurly just cause.
anywho thanks for all the help. and to everyone else thats been "patiant" with me lol just trying to understand some of the finer points
08-31-2012, 04:41 PM
#67
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Alright!!! now that i got the heads and cam out of my system lol
60lbs siemen injectors and ractronix fuel pump w/ hotwire kit!!!! LET DO THIS!!!!
Thank you WS6store for the racetronix fuelpump/wire kit/batt wire, cant wait to use it!
60lbs siemen injectors and ractronix fuel pump w/ hotwire kit!!!! LET DO THIS!!!!
Thank you WS6store for the racetronix fuelpump/wire kit/batt wire, cant wait to use it!
Last edited by JoshuaGrooms83; 09-01-2012 at 12:55 PM.
09-04-2012, 03:56 PM
#69
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your telling me! i cant wait to get this thing finished lol between being busy do everything else other then working on my car. then when i get time, i gotta move! lol
on a side note, got ahold of a 01+ LS1 oil pump for $30 brand new. from what ive been reading, anything past 2001 for new ls1 and ls6 oil pumps are the same pump.... SOOO i guess i now have a nice new LS6 oil pump for my car!! yay lol at least it replaced my old 98 pump which i think is not running near as it should. heres some links that i found to confirm this,
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-oil-pump.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-oil-pump.html
also am going with a bigger intercooler. ill figure out the foglight thing later with bracketts but am not willing to sacrifice looks for engine safety. so
instead of an 18"x12 intercooler im going with a nice and big
31x12x3- 3"-I/O EMUSA intercooler. pretty sweeet looking too. getting that once i hit texas later.
on a side note, got ahold of a 01+ LS1 oil pump for $30 brand new. from what ive been reading, anything past 2001 for new ls1 and ls6 oil pumps are the same pump.... SOOO i guess i now have a nice new LS6 oil pump for my car!! yay lol at least it replaced my old 98 pump which i think is not running near as it should. heres some links that i found to confirm this,
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-oil-pump.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-oil-pump.html
also am going with a bigger intercooler. ill figure out the foglight thing later with bracketts but am not willing to sacrifice looks for engine safety. so
instead of an 18"x12 intercooler im going with a nice and big
31x12x3- 3"-I/O EMUSA intercooler. pretty sweeet looking too. getting that once i hit texas later.
09-04-2012, 07:35 PM
#70
TECH Resident
Just a heads up. You may need to install a boost referenced fuel regulator. I'm finding that I'm running out of fuel when I hit 9psi. From what I've heard, the boost actually pushes back through the fuel injectors. So... my 60's are getting 9psi backpressure. i.e. 58 psi is now 49 psi. So I'm running out of fuel.... because of the boost..
With a boost referenced fuel regulator, it connects to the manifold to give even 58 psi at all times.
Right now, my tuner was looking at my injectors and he said they're operating at 100% duty cycle at max boost (9psi) and my AFR still goes to 13. At 7psi, my system holds at 11 AFR. I've had to set my boost regulator to not more than 7 psi until I can get a boost reference fuel regulator on it. I never even heard of this until a week ago! WTF!
Here's a page with a table that helps explain how the fuel pressure will drop under boost using stock setup.
http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/fuel/fuel.htm
I've heard that our rails will support up to 800 hp, but without the correct fuel pressure regulator, we can't get the fuel out of the injectors... FYI...
With a boost referenced fuel regulator, it connects to the manifold to give even 58 psi at all times.
Right now, my tuner was looking at my injectors and he said they're operating at 100% duty cycle at max boost (9psi) and my AFR still goes to 13. At 7psi, my system holds at 11 AFR. I've had to set my boost regulator to not more than 7 psi until I can get a boost reference fuel regulator on it. I never even heard of this until a week ago! WTF!
Here's a page with a table that helps explain how the fuel pressure will drop under boost using stock setup.
http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/fuel/fuel.htm
I've heard that our rails will support up to 800 hp, but without the correct fuel pressure regulator, we can't get the fuel out of the injectors... FYI...
09-07-2012, 06:05 PM
#72
TECH Resident
Right now, I'm maxing out the tune's capability (i.e. tuner has injector flow set for 100% when I hit high boost.). You can't tell the injectors to flow more than 100%... well, you can, but they won't be physically able to given the back pressure on the boost.
I'm wondering if this is why so many people are only able to boost 10 psi on stock motors before they blow it, because they actually go lean due to fuel flow. With the correct fuel flow, and methanol/water/intercooler, we may be able to do more.
Amazing how all the car's systems tie into one another.
09-07-2012, 06:23 PM
#73
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Thread Starter
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yeah, now i have to do more crap to my fuel system lol
at least they arnt too expensive, but what kind is the other thing. what brand/size do i need to use?
the other thing thats makign me not like this regulator is that there has to be some kind of return/bypass for the fuel back to the gas tank right? how is that occomplished on our cars? without putting in a fuel cell or welding on the tank?
at least they arnt too expensive, but what kind is the other thing. what brand/size do i need to use?
the other thing thats makign me not like this regulator is that there has to be some kind of return/bypass for the fuel back to the gas tank right? how is that occomplished on our cars? without putting in a fuel cell or welding on the tank?
09-07-2012, 06:57 PM
#74
TECH Resident
Yeah... I'm still working on figuring that out too. Looks like we'll have to run another line to the back and maybe tap in to the fuel pump bucket cover or something. <scratches head> Will let you know if/when I figure something out. lol
09-07-2012, 10:33 PM
#76
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josh, you know about my fuel system? I have the Aeromotive FPR. I'll get back with you tomorrow for the part numbers. You will want that, as with boost, every pound you push, you push that against the injectors (Delta pressure) so 58psi with 5 psi boost, becomes 53psi and the injector flow scales back accordingly.
-stephen
-stephen
09-20-2012, 11:22 PM
#78
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josh, you know about my fuel system? I have the Aeromotive FPR. I'll get back with you tomorrow for the part numbers. You will want that, as with boost, every pound you push, you push that against the injectors (Delta pressure) so 58psi with 5 psi boost, becomes 53psi and the injector flow scales back accordingly.
-stephen
-stephen
the PN that i found was 13101 and 13129 were the common ones i find.
09-21-2012, 12:22 AM
#79
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well after some digging and researching, im 98% sure im going to use 317 heads. still wondering if i should go with LS9 gaskets (.051) which will put my CR at 9.7 or use Cometics .040 Gasket which will put the CR at 10:1
wondering which to run.
since im going this route have decided to go more in debth in the build and add a cam.
still trying to decided on that have 5 in mind.
TSP 224/224 .581/.581 LSA 114 (XER lobes I KNOW)
TU1 225/225 .581/.581 LSA 113 (boost specific)
Tick 226/226 .602/.602 LSA 115 (they seem like they are on LXL lobes, recommended by Tck but not in productiuon yet)
TSP 224/228 .581/.588 LSA 114 (their boost type cam)
TSP 228/228 .588/.588 LSA 114 (XER lobes, but heard really good things from both N/A and boost)
trying to keep the under the curve power for street manners with the rear mounted turbo.
also the addition of
LS6 oil pump shimmed for more pressure and might port it myself. maybe lol
LS2 timing chain
LS2 lifter cups
LS7 lifters
ARP head studs
LS9 Gasket .052 OR Cometics .040 gasket
PAC beehive 1518 .065 lift
comp cams trunion up grade
hardend push rods, will have to measure to know but seems 7.350 would be right where it needs to be with the tighter gasket and LS7 lifters.
LS1 waterpump seal
new crank bolt
LS1 Waterpump
wondering which to run.
since im going this route have decided to go more in debth in the build and add a cam.
still trying to decided on that have 5 in mind.
TSP 224/224 .581/.581 LSA 114 (XER lobes I KNOW)
TU1 225/225 .581/.581 LSA 113 (boost specific)
Tick 226/226 .602/.602 LSA 115 (they seem like they are on LXL lobes, recommended by Tck but not in productiuon yet)
TSP 224/228 .581/.588 LSA 114 (their boost type cam)
TSP 228/228 .588/.588 LSA 114 (XER lobes, but heard really good things from both N/A and boost)
trying to keep the under the curve power for street manners with the rear mounted turbo.
also the addition of
LS6 oil pump shimmed for more pressure and might port it myself. maybe lol
LS2 timing chain
LS2 lifter cups
LS7 lifters
ARP head studs
LS9 Gasket .052 OR Cometics .040 gasket
PAC beehive 1518 .065 lift
comp cams trunion up grade
hardend push rods, will have to measure to know but seems 7.350 would be right where it needs to be with the tighter gasket and LS7 lifters.
LS1 waterpump seal
new crank bolt
LS1 Waterpump
09-21-2012, 09:55 AM
#80
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TSP 224/224 .581/.581 LSA 114 (XER lobes I KNOW)
TU1 225/225 .581/.581 LSA 113 (boost specific)
Tick 226/226 .602/.602 LSA 115 (they seem like they are on LXL lobes, recommended by Tck but not in productiuon yet)
TSP 224/228 .581/.588 LSA 114 (their boost type cam)
TSP 228/228 .588/.588 LSA 114 (XER lobes, but heard really good things from both N/A and boost)
TU1 225/225 .581/.581 LSA 113 (boost specific)
Tick 226/226 .602/.602 LSA 115 (they seem like they are on LXL lobes, recommended by Tck but not in productiuon yet)
TSP 224/228 .581/.588 LSA 114 (their boost type cam)
TSP 228/228 .588/.588 LSA 114 (XER lobes, but heard really good things from both N/A and boost)
Whats this XER lobe concern? I haven't heard or looked at this?
I like the Tick (LXL) and TSP 224/228 cam, I'm no cam expert though.
Mine is a Comp Cams XFI lobe 220/226 .605/.600 115+1
Fueling, I have the 13101.
Last edited by ZL1Killa; 09-21-2012 at 10:02 AM.