How much timing are you guys running 93 with Meth able to run?
02-25-2012, 08:22 AM
#24
I had 22psi and 21 degs of timing in my car at one time with no sign of det. and the plugs look great. (iat where around 60ish on a 90 deg day at full boost)
94 octane and three nozzles of pure meth 9 7 15
the car normaly had 15 psi and 22degs in it at all times.
pure meth does wonders
94 octane and three nozzles of pure meth 9 7 15
the car normaly had 15 psi and 22degs in it at all times.
pure meth does wonders
02-26-2012, 12:13 AM
#26
This thread makes me sad.
What most people nowadays don't get, is that a motor wants the LEAST amount of timing possible while still keeping max power the same!!!
The more you advance the timing the more the piston is fighting the spark and coming back to TDC. The further the piston is in the hole when the spark is ignited the more your fighting the piston traveling upwards in the bore. The more you fight the up and down motion of the piston, the less power you will make.
Lean is mean, and low timing make max power and a safe tune up.
You guys remember when Dave(MM) was all for pump gas and meth and trying to do as much as he could on it?
Yea, there is a reason he doesn't push that anymore and runs race gas tunes on anything more than about 14-15psi.
Just cause one guy is doing it and getting away with it, doesn't mean everyone can.
If you ask the guy running 14* and 23psi what his CR is I'd be willing to bet it's way lower than anyone else in this thread looking to do the same.
What most people nowadays don't get, is that a motor wants the LEAST amount of timing possible while still keeping max power the same!!!
The more you advance the timing the more the piston is fighting the spark and coming back to TDC. The further the piston is in the hole when the spark is ignited the more your fighting the piston traveling upwards in the bore. The more you fight the up and down motion of the piston, the less power you will make.
Lean is mean, and low timing make max power and a safe tune up.
You guys remember when Dave(MM) was all for pump gas and meth and trying to do as much as he could on it?
Yea, there is a reason he doesn't push that anymore and runs race gas tunes on anything more than about 14-15psi.
Just cause one guy is doing it and getting away with it, doesn't mean everyone can.
If you ask the guy running 14* and 23psi what his CR is I'd be willing to bet it's way lower than anyone else in this thread looking to do the same.
02-26-2012, 12:41 AM
#27
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This thread makes me sad.
What most people nowadays don't get, is that a motor wants the LEAST amount of timing possible while still keeping max power the same!!!
The more you advance the timing the more the piston is fighting the spark and coming back to TDC. The further the piston is in the hole when the spark is ignited the more your fighting the piston traveling upwards in the bore. The more you fight the up and down motion of the piston, the less power you will make.
Lean is mean, and low timing make max power and a safe tune up.
You guys remember when Dave(MM) was all for pump gas and meth and trying to do as much as he could on it?
Yea, there is a reason he doesn't push that anymore and runs race gas tunes on anything more than about 14-15psi.
Just cause one guy is doing it and getting away with it, doesn't mean everyone can.
If you ask the guy running 14* and 23psi what his CR is I'd be willing to bet it's way lower than anyone else in this thread looking to do the same.
What most people nowadays don't get, is that a motor wants the LEAST amount of timing possible while still keeping max power the same!!!
The more you advance the timing the more the piston is fighting the spark and coming back to TDC. The further the piston is in the hole when the spark is ignited the more your fighting the piston traveling upwards in the bore. The more you fight the up and down motion of the piston, the less power you will make.
Lean is mean, and low timing make max power and a safe tune up.
You guys remember when Dave(MM) was all for pump gas and meth and trying to do as much as he could on it?
Yea, there is a reason he doesn't push that anymore and runs race gas tunes on anything more than about 14-15psi.
Just cause one guy is doing it and getting away with it, doesn't mean everyone can.
If you ask the guy running 14* and 23psi what his CR is I'd be willing to bet it's way lower than anyone else in this thread looking to do the same.
As for timing-I never try to push a meth tuned car with more timing-I found power in meth in the cooling effect. I would go maybe a few degrees more than what I may have gone without meth but never anymore. You'll pick up power just from the IAT drop.
Fbodyjunkie06 if you were referring to my combo running 14 degrees and 23psi, I think you might be surprised to hear my combo is 10.25 to 1.
Last edited by eb02z06; 02-26-2012 at 12:51 AM.
02-26-2012, 11:58 AM
#28
meth is a safety device, but really is no much diffrent then runing some 114 race gas.
you have to turn the timing up to achive the best hp out of the race gas as the fuel has a much slower burn rate so timing needs to be dvanced in order to make the full burn happen right at tdc.
with adding meth you are adding octane, so to achive the most power out of the two fuels timing needs to be turned up.
now im not saying that every body needs to go out and crank there timing up, but there should be some decent gain if you want to push on your combo spraying meth.
you have to turn the timing up to achive the best hp out of the race gas as the fuel has a much slower burn rate so timing needs to be dvanced in order to make the full burn happen right at tdc.
with adding meth you are adding octane, so to achive the most power out of the two fuels timing needs to be turned up.
now im not saying that every body needs to go out and crank there timing up, but there should be some decent gain if you want to push on your combo spraying meth.
02-26-2012, 02:01 PM
#29
Im running 7psi on an LY6 on 93 with no alcohol injection, just went from 15* to 18* up top and the difference is noticeable, pulls harder in top gear, and where it would barely spin the tires in 2nd gear before now it spins them as long as you stay in it (th350 2.41 rear gear and 235 mt dr)
You might put a little race gas in it (original poster) and bump yours up since it is really low and see what you pick up.
You might put a little race gas in it (original poster) and bump yours up since it is really low and see what you pick up.
02-26-2012, 04:51 PM
#30
I agree with you 100%. Adding meth doesn't give you a license to crank up the timing. That's just foolish-meth is great-but it ain't C16.
As for timing-I never try to push a meth tuned car with more timing-I found power in meth in the cooling effect. I would go maybe a few degrees more than what I may have gone without meth but never anymore. You'll pick up power just from the IAT drop.
Fbodyjunkie06 if you were referring to my combo running 14 degrees and 23psi, I think you might be surprised to hear my combo is 10.25 to 1.
As for timing-I never try to push a meth tuned car with more timing-I found power in meth in the cooling effect. I would go maybe a few degrees more than what I may have gone without meth but never anymore. You'll pick up power just from the IAT drop.
Fbodyjunkie06 if you were referring to my combo running 14 degrees and 23psi, I think you might be surprised to hear my combo is 10.25 to 1.
What heads do you have? Any port or chamber work done to them?
What heat range plug are you running?
And this guy's comment about reading the plug and it telling you what to do is the best advice you can give. Plug will tell you exactly what you need to know.
It's only human though to want to push and push and push as much as we can without getting burnt or bit. Human nature tells us to go as far as we can with something until it hurts us. Kinda like boost and timing.
02-26-2012, 04:53 PM
#31
meth is a safety device, but really is no much diffrent then runing some 114 race gas.
you have to turn the timing up to achive the best hp out of the race gas as the fuel has a much slower burn rate so timing needs to be dvanced in order to make the full burn happen right at tdc.
with adding meth you are adding octane, so to achive the most power out of the two fuels timing needs to be turned up.
now im not saying that every body needs to go out and crank there timing up, but there should be some decent gain if you want to push on your combo spraying meth.
you have to turn the timing up to achive the best hp out of the race gas as the fuel has a much slower burn rate so timing needs to be dvanced in order to make the full burn happen right at tdc.
with adding meth you are adding octane, so to achive the most power out of the two fuels timing needs to be turned up.
now im not saying that every body needs to go out and crank there timing up, but there should be some decent gain if you want to push on your combo spraying meth.
It's not turning the timing up that makes the best or most hp!!! It's leaning it out!!!!!
You can get just as much if not more power out of using methanol by adding boost not timing!!!
02-26-2012, 07:27 PM
#33
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Yes I was, and yes I am surprised!
What heads do you have? Any port or chamber work done to them?
What heat range plug are you running?
And this guy's comment about reading the plug and it telling you what to do is the best advice you can give. Plug will tell you exactly what you need to know.
It's only human though to want to push and push and push as much as we can without getting burnt or bit. Human nature tells us to go as far as we can with something until it hurts us. Kinda like boost and timing.
What heads do you have? Any port or chamber work done to them?
What heat range plug are you running?
And this guy's comment about reading the plug and it telling you what to do is the best advice you can give. Plug will tell you exactly what you need to know.
It's only human though to want to push and push and push as much as we can without getting burnt or bit. Human nature tells us to go as far as we can with something until it hurts us. Kinda like boost and timing.
I ran a gasketed #7 last season but I think a #8 maybe better, the car see's a decent amount of street miles and I had already bought a trunkload of #7.
I agree with you 100% with turning up the boost not the timing with meth.
02-26-2012, 07:28 PM
#34
^^ I agree 1psi of boost will make more power then 1 deg of timing
example my build.. I had 22 psi and 21degs in the forged ls2, plugs look pretty good just a Lil pass the corner of the strap. with out the meth no way and hell would I pushed the engine that hard.
when I first started tuning this engine, I started out on 14degs and worked up to 23degs (12psi boost)
keeping the afrs around 11.8ish, I was at the track and for every two degs down in the low teens I would pick 2-3mph, in the 20deg range the mph was 1mph per 2deg I stopped at the 23 just because it had to be right on the edge of detonation and the gains weren't helping that much verse the risk (this was on tr6s)
OP again just get the car together and see what the combo likes on the track or a dyno.
good luck on your build
example my build.. I had 22 psi and 21degs in the forged ls2, plugs look pretty good just a Lil pass the corner of the strap. with out the meth no way and hell would I pushed the engine that hard.
when I first started tuning this engine, I started out on 14degs and worked up to 23degs (12psi boost)
keeping the afrs around 11.8ish, I was at the track and for every two degs down in the low teens I would pick 2-3mph, in the 20deg range the mph was 1mph per 2deg I stopped at the 23 just because it had to be right on the edge of detonation and the gains weren't helping that much verse the risk (this was on tr6s)
OP again just get the car together and see what the combo likes on the track or a dyno.
good luck on your build
02-26-2012, 09:16 PM
#37
TECH Fanatic
Great info here, my 87Grandnational loves meth timing is at20* in 3rd, 23 in 1st&2nd. Always tune by O2 sensors 750/800s. Just ordered a wide band kit, and wanted to know the reading should be on the wide band when spraying meth, think I saw 10.8/11.0. Good luck!
02-26-2012, 09:58 PM
#40
i was under the impression that when running meth you were shooting for a different a/f ratio since the burn rate is different. curioius as to what guys are running a/f wise