Need Help With Head Selection
#1
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First off, my setup includes a procharged 403(-ish)ci motor. My previous setup made 760rwhp on my street tune (93 + meth) last spring after my powertrain swap. The only big changes, other than a complete piston/ring swap, is selling my AFR 225 heads for something different.
When I started all of this, I juggled around the idea of just having my AFRs worked over to see what I could gain, and then I quickly got into the price range of just buying a new set of heads. Before selling the AFRs, I got my eye set on a pair of MAST 245s cathedral port heads... after hearing about the long wait time, I was slowly pushed away and started looking elsewhere.
I have since been redirected toward a set of World Products 255 Cathedral heads. I heard they had a history of bad castings or poor CNC work, but they have changed which ever it was that was causing problems so they're actaully back up in quality.
The closer the time comes to purchasing heads, I am becoming more and more torn on which head to go with. I have searched until my fingers are blue, but I haven't found anyone with a similar setup so I can't see the real difference or even results from either.
Don't get me wrong, I understand there is a pretty substantial price difference between the two (~$2200 vs ~$2600 [bare = 15% difference]), but I am just looking for the best 'bang for my $'.
For the people that will say neither will be a good choice and go with a set of rectangular port heads, I would rather stick with some cathedral heads so I can re-use my intake manifold (FAST 102), roller rockers and previous cam (234/242 .650/.650 112LSA on a 108ICL). FWIW, I really liked how well this car drove on the street, and it also averaged over 22mpg on a 2k mile trip. Even with my poor driving skills, it managed a 10.14@144 with my car weighing in at 3700# without me in it.
Also, are there any power-proven heads that I am overlooking for my setup?
When I started all of this, I juggled around the idea of just having my AFRs worked over to see what I could gain, and then I quickly got into the price range of just buying a new set of heads. Before selling the AFRs, I got my eye set on a pair of MAST 245s cathedral port heads... after hearing about the long wait time, I was slowly pushed away and started looking elsewhere.
I have since been redirected toward a set of World Products 255 Cathedral heads. I heard they had a history of bad castings or poor CNC work, but they have changed which ever it was that was causing problems so they're actaully back up in quality.
The closer the time comes to purchasing heads, I am becoming more and more torn on which head to go with. I have searched until my fingers are blue, but I haven't found anyone with a similar setup so I can't see the real difference or even results from either.
Don't get me wrong, I understand there is a pretty substantial price difference between the two (~$2200 vs ~$2600 [bare = 15% difference]), but I am just looking for the best 'bang for my $'.
For the people that will say neither will be a good choice and go with a set of rectangular port heads, I would rather stick with some cathedral heads so I can re-use my intake manifold (FAST 102), roller rockers and previous cam (234/242 .650/.650 112LSA on a 108ICL). FWIW, I really liked how well this car drove on the street, and it also averaged over 22mpg on a 2k mile trip. Even with my poor driving skills, it managed a 10.14@144 with my car weighing in at 3700# without me in it.
Also, are there any power-proven heads that I am overlooking for my setup?
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I am curious about this as well. Very similar setup here. I'm running unported 317's @ 12 lbs. Obviously on my particular setup ANY ported head especially an AFR or Trickflow is going to pick up power no matter what, but I wonder about how much it would gain and if I want to try and push these heads any further.
#5
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I am curious about this as well. Very similar setup here. I'm running unported 317's @ 12 lbs. Obviously on my particular setup ANY ported head especially an AFR or Trickflow is going to pick up power no matter what, but I wonder about how much it would gain and if I want to try and push these heads any further.
#7
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Give Tony Mamo a call at AFR. Bob
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#8
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That's like searching for the Holy Grail!LOL![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
I called Tony a few times and go no answer. Its best to just email him or PM him on here.
I was quoted 3850 for a set of new 230's with the upgraded springs and hollow valves for boost. Plus, they will be "Mamofied" with his special touch. Hope that gives you an idea of what you're going to pay.
![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
I called Tony a few times and go no answer. Its best to just email him or PM him on here.
I was quoted 3850 for a set of new 230's with the upgraded springs and hollow valves for boost. Plus, they will be "Mamofied" with his special touch. Hope that gives you an idea of what you're going to pay.
#11
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I will give him a call... Thanks.
Thanks for the info. I coudn't imagine I would pick up very much going from AFR 225s to AFR 230s, but I could be wrong!
I think that most of the ALLPRO heads and the bigger side of the spectrum require something comparable to a LS7 bore diameter, which I am far from with this block.
HAHA!
Yeah, they are a pricey head for sure.
That's like searching for the Holy Grail!LOL![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
I called Tony a few times and go no answer. Its best to just email him or PM him on here.
I was quoted 3850 for a set of new 230's with the upgraded springs and hollow valves for boost. Plus, they will be "Mamofied" with his special touch. Hope that gives you an idea of what you're going to pay.
![Grin](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_grin.gif)
I called Tony a few times and go no answer. Its best to just email him or PM him on here.
I was quoted 3850 for a set of new 230's with the upgraded springs and hollow valves for boost. Plus, they will be "Mamofied" with his special touch. Hope that gives you an idea of what you're going to pay.
Yeah, they are a pricey head for sure.
#12
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What do you want to do? near stock 225's will do 8's w/88mm easy.
What size turbo?
Just get stock AFR 245's with spring upgrade from Tony.
He can stick a bigger spring than the 8019 on there.
What size turbo?
Just get stock AFR 245's with spring upgrade from Tony.
He can stick a bigger spring than the 8019 on there.
#13
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He told this to me and 98z28cobrakiller on here.
To racerbill: If you get the smaller valves in the All-Pro's LSW 12's it might work considering LS3 heads have 2.16/ 1.6 valves and they work on 4 inch bores.
I was quoted 5 grand for the heads from All-Pro.
#14
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I have heard the same thing about the AFR 245s as silverbillet mentions below.
I was advised by Tony to not go that route. Something about valve too heavy and boost on the backside of it will just make it more uncontrollable no matter the spring. Solid would make it a different story though.
He told this to me and 98z28cobrakiller on here.
To racerbill: If you get the smaller valves in the All-Pro's LSW 12's it might work considering LS3 heads have 2.16/ 1.6 valves and they work on 4 inch bores.
I was quoted 5 grand for the heads from All-Pro.
He told this to me and 98z28cobrakiller on here.
To racerbill: If you get the smaller valves in the All-Pro's LSW 12's it might work considering LS3 heads have 2.16/ 1.6 valves and they work on 4 inch bores.
I was quoted 5 grand for the heads from All-Pro.
#15
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I would run the LSA's over L92's. The LSA's have a better deck but then there is that wing thing in the runner, so you will have to get them ported.
I would personally just go back with the AFR's and go with 230's with the stronger spring. The port is a better design than your old 225's plus if you can get Tony to touch them it would be an added benefit.
I would personally just go back with the AFR's and go with 230's with the stronger spring. The port is a better design than your old 225's plus if you can get Tony to touch them it would be an added benefit.
#16
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I would run the LSA's over L92's. The LSA's have a better deck but then there is that wing thing in the runner, so you will have to get them ported.
I would personally just go back with the AFR's and go with 230's with the stronger spring. The port is a better design than your old 225's plus if you can get Tony to touch them it would be an added benefit.
I would personally just go back with the AFR's and go with 230's with the stronger spring. The port is a better design than your old 225's plus if you can get Tony to touch them it would be an added benefit.
#17
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do it!
funny richard never got back to you, must be busy
that guy is great as is his work, i have his ported LSAs
i am just a pee-on and he talked with me on the phone forever
funny richard never got back to you, must be busy
that guy is great as is his work, i have his ported LSAs
i am just a pee-on and he talked with me on the phone forever