***Important Oil information for ANYONE****
10-27-2012, 12:08 AM
#61
Lately, Ive been seeing a LOT of failed turbos, and failed camshaft/lifters.
Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.
Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.
We have also seen a lot of turbo thrust bearing failures. This is VERY abnormal.
Have you heard about the LS7 exhaust valve dropping syndrome? It just started rearing its ugly head too... Its guide wear... Why? Because the oil cannot protect properly!
Its the oil people. Run a quality oil with proper additives. Redline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc OUR ENGINES NEED THE ADDITIVES THAT THE EPA HAS MADE STREET OIL BLENDS REMOVE.
PLEASE READ BELOW.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
Louis
Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.
Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.
We have also seen a lot of turbo thrust bearing failures. This is VERY abnormal.
Have you heard about the LS7 exhaust valve dropping syndrome? It just started rearing its ugly head too... Its guide wear... Why? Because the oil cannot protect properly!
Its the oil people. Run a quality oil with proper additives. Redline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc OUR ENGINES NEED THE ADDITIVES THAT THE EPA HAS MADE STREET OIL BLENDS REMOVE.
PLEASE READ BELOW.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
Louis
People think these engines are something special...they are just regular old Chevy V8's. I laugh when people post how they use super-duper magical synthetic this-and-that.....its hilarious.
People just don't get it when it comes to oil and they never will.
.
10-27-2012, 02:56 PM
#62
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Lately, Ive been seeing a LOT of failed turbos, and failed camshaft/lifters.
Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.
Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.
We have also seen a lot of turbo thrust bearing failures. This is VERY abnormal.
Have you heard about the LS7 exhaust valve dropping syndrome? It just started rearing its ugly head too... Its guide wear... Why? Because the oil cannot protect properly!
Its the oil people. Run a quality oil with proper additives. Redline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc OUR ENGINES NEED THE ADDITIVES THAT THE EPA HAS MADE STREET OIL BLENDS REMOVE.
PLEASE READ BELOW.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
Louis
Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.
Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.
We have also seen a lot of turbo thrust bearing failures. This is VERY abnormal.
Have you heard about the LS7 exhaust valve dropping syndrome? It just started rearing its ugly head too... Its guide wear... Why? Because the oil cannot protect properly!
Its the oil people. Run a quality oil with proper additives. Redline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc OUR ENGINES NEED THE ADDITIVES THAT THE EPA HAS MADE STREET OIL BLENDS REMOVE.
PLEASE READ BELOW.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
Louis
why did they change from napa to mobil? and was it synthetic to non-synthetic change there?
and what is an estimated change interval for Brad Penn Grade 20w-50 oil?
Last edited by ZL1Killa; 10-27-2012 at 03:03 PM.
10-30-2012, 03:02 PM
#64
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ok, so I'm compiling an excel sheet of normal oil information presented from each manufacturer via data sheets they provide online, and if I can't find that information I will email and ask them. I'm also combining the previous PDF data into this sheet.
so far I have found that the Valvoline VR1 10w-30 has a 11.5 cSt at 100C versus 20.5 of the 20w-50. Have wear/oil analysis tests showed that the 20w-50 offers much improved wear characteristics versus the 10w-30?
so far I have found that the Valvoline VR1 10w-30 has a 11.5 cSt at 100C versus 20.5 of the 20w-50. Have wear/oil analysis tests showed that the 20w-50 offers much improved wear characteristics versus the 10w-30?
10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
#65
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I ran Mobile 1 5W-30 on my LS1 with 80k miles on it (when installed) plus added a cam and spun a bearing 4k miles later
now I have a motor with only 40k miles, and I have put about 6k on it (still using Mobile 1 5W-30 synthetic)
Which oil would you guys suggest me to change to next spring (when I do my next oil change)??
everyone has skipped over the Mobile 1 questions, so any input would be greatly appreciated
now I have a motor with only 40k miles, and I have put about 6k on it (still using Mobile 1 5W-30 synthetic)
Which oil would you guys suggest me to change to next spring (when I do my next oil change)??
everyone has skipped over the Mobile 1 questions, so any input would be greatly appreciated
10-30-2012, 09:08 PM
#66
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for high hp & racing vehicles it appears to be the oils listed on the first post PDF. for instance, here locally in NC I can easily find Valvoline VR1 10w-30 and 20w-50, Autozone only though. I can also find the ZDDP additive for $11.50 per quart, at advance ( 1/2 bottle (16oz) to make 1700/1400 ppm of zinc & phoph) with normal oil, mobil 1 5w-30 off the shelf also. Being we need around ~1300ppm you can almost say 12oz of additive to get that effect...so almost* 3 changes per one additive bottle.
20w-50 is some "thick" oil when compared to all others that is conventionally used in production vehicles
I have found that 5w-30 is rather on the "thin" side of things. 0w-40 is better than it...they call it european formula...marketing... wanting to hear some feedback on the additive versus simply buying the high zinc/phosph oil?
20w-50 is some "thick" oil when compared to all others that is conventionally used in production vehicles
I have found that 5w-30 is rather on the "thin" side of things. 0w-40 is better than it...they call it european formula...marketing... wanting to hear some feedback on the additive versus simply buying the high zinc/phosph oil?
10-30-2012, 10:13 PM
#67
Based on my machinists recommendation, I've been running Brad Penn in my car since I put the turbo motor together in 2008. Daily driven and driven hard. Lots and lots of races at 19psi. Pulled the heads twice to swap them (stock to Canfields, then Canfields to TFS) and the cylinders have zero ridge. Pistons wiped off (not scraped) and they look almost new. I'm glad people are reading about the good oils and will have a chance to save their investments from an early demise.
10-31-2012, 10:05 AM
#68
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Based on my machinists recommendation, I've been running Brad Penn in my car since I put the turbo motor together in 2008. Daily driven and driven hard. Lots and lots of races at 19psi. Pulled the heads twice to swap them (stock to Canfields, then Canfields to TFS) and the cylinders have zero ridge. Pistons wiped off (not scraped) and they look almost new. I'm glad people are reading about the good oils and will have a chance to save their investments from an early demise.
10-31-2012, 06:42 PM
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Right now I'm looking at it this way, Mobil 1 0w-40 has a cSt of 13.5 @ 100 C; the zinc/phosph content is ~800/900
The Rislone ZDDP additive has 15.6 cSt @ 100 C and using half a container per oil change gives 1400/1200 I believe.
The point in adding the Zinc & Phosph is to gain Extreme Pressure (EP) capability with your oil to maintain a coating on high pressure components.
From reading Bobistheoilguy.com previously, I remember that our ls1 family of engines from oil results like to have a cSt rating of around a 13~14 (yes I know generalized statement).
But that being said, 0w-40 and 16oz of ZDDP additive equates to ~13.7 cSt and gives you your wanted Zinc & Phosph levels.
mobil 1 5w-30 is 11.0 cSt @ 100 C, adding the same amount of ZDDP additive would only net 11.4 cSt
opinions or thoughts?
I have 6 quarts of 0w-40 and I now have the ZDDP additive. 20w-50 is rather high on the cSt chart, but I'm not an expert, nor hard racer, so any input is appreciated.
The Rislone ZDDP additive has 15.6 cSt @ 100 C and using half a container per oil change gives 1400/1200 I believe.
The point in adding the Zinc & Phosph is to gain Extreme Pressure (EP) capability with your oil to maintain a coating on high pressure components.
From reading Bobistheoilguy.com previously, I remember that our ls1 family of engines from oil results like to have a cSt rating of around a 13~14 (yes I know generalized statement).
But that being said, 0w-40 and 16oz of ZDDP additive equates to ~13.7 cSt and gives you your wanted Zinc & Phosph levels.
mobil 1 5w-30 is 11.0 cSt @ 100 C, adding the same amount of ZDDP additive would only net 11.4 cSt
opinions or thoughts?
I have 6 quarts of 0w-40 and I now have the ZDDP additive. 20w-50 is rather high on the cSt chart, but I'm not an expert, nor hard racer, so any input is appreciated.
Last edited by ZL1Killa; 10-31-2012 at 06:49 PM.
11-07-2012, 08:09 PM
#71
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no additional thoughts, comments?
The only reason I see to run 20w-50 is if the car had pretty consistent high oil temperatures & was driven rough on the street & at the drag strip continuously.
For a daily driver that gets beat on occasion, 0w-40 with the zinc additive based on the oil viscosity charts and NC temperatures would be ok.
The only reason I see to run 20w-50 is if the car had pretty consistent high oil temperatures & was driven rough on the street & at the drag strip continuously.
For a daily driver that gets beat on occasion, 0w-40 with the zinc additive based on the oil viscosity charts and NC temperatures would be ok.
11-08-2012, 12:56 AM
#72
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So synthetic or conventional oil doesn't matter as long as zinc content is high? Or is synthetic still prefered over convetional for turbo motors? And running a thicker oil than OEM specced is preferred for protection, right? Just trying to fully understand this oil concept.
11-09-2012, 07:20 AM
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So synthetic or conventional oil doesn't matter as long as zinc content is high? Or is synthetic still prefered over convetional for turbo motors? And running a thicker oil than OEM specced is preferred for protection, right? Just trying to fully understand this oil concept.
Where do you live?
To me, the 20w-50 is a very "thick" oil and intended for high oil temps and beating on your car. If this is an everyday occurrence or every other day, sure, use it.
For my use and driving habits Ow-40 (even 10w-40) w/ZDDP additive and the temperatures that we have in NC there shouldn't be a reason why this wouldn't provide all the protection I need.
I'm compiling an excel sheet with all the "Standard" given oil information & also trying to acquire the zinc and phos details when I don't have them. I plan to upload this when I'm done.
11-09-2012, 07:57 AM
#75
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This is interesting.. I did a search on here a while back when I wanted to get a good oil and stick with it. So I came across a lot of people running the castrol syntec 0w30 european.
I've been running that ever since. I didn't c this oil at all in this thread . My car is procharged making about 680 rwhp. So should I switch to one of these oils in this thread or stay we're I'm at? This whole time I thought I was using one of the best
I've been running that ever since. I didn't c this oil at all in this thread . My car is procharged making about 680 rwhp. So should I switch to one of these oils in this thread or stay we're I'm at? This whole time I thought I was using one of the best
11-09-2012, 03:37 PM
#76
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get the details on the 0w-30 european, but as it is made to that detail, I would be its cSt rating is 11.5~12 and the important part is the ZDDP levels.
I would switch, I made the switch a while back to 0w-40, just didn't realize the zddp levels had dropped off so much over the years.
I would switch, I made the switch a while back to 0w-40, just didn't realize the zddp levels had dropped off so much over the years.
11-09-2012, 08:37 PM
#77
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The purpose of oil: To lubricate. You want a film of oil between moving parts at all times to protect your engine from metal to metal contact. Conventional oils don't have nearly the same film strength as sytenthic oils and thats what makes synthetics far superior. Thats one of the main points that has been missed over and over when comparing petroleum and synthetic based oils
11-09-2012, 09:30 PM
#78
I just checked autozones site for the 20w50.....says its not able to be shipped to any US state. Must mean its damn good stuff. Bout to order some somehow.
Another interesting thing that is overlooked is the priming method used before initially starting the car. A ton of the bearing life is spent when firing the motor up the first time among other places. I think Metco or someone has a pressurized tank that you can buy if you dont wanna make your own...it puts 70psi to the motor and pushes the oil in every crevice and valley and lubricates everything fully. I am not sure just turning the motor over is quite as good, but that works too. The simplest things we overlook can be the downfall of these gems sitting under our hoods so I am all for these threads. I am always impressed by high hp cars, but even moreso when they keep running and running with no problems like the energizer bunny. I would trust alchemists recommendations being that hes a chemist and all and has been around that sector.
Haha...he wouldn't put royal purple on his kids bicycle chain.
Another interesting thing that is overlooked is the priming method used before initially starting the car. A ton of the bearing life is spent when firing the motor up the first time among other places. I think Metco or someone has a pressurized tank that you can buy if you dont wanna make your own...it puts 70psi to the motor and pushes the oil in every crevice and valley and lubricates everything fully. I am not sure just turning the motor over is quite as good, but that works too. The simplest things we overlook can be the downfall of these gems sitting under our hoods so I am all for these threads. I am always impressed by high hp cars, but even moreso when they keep running and running with no problems like the energizer bunny. I would trust alchemists recommendations being that hes a chemist and all and has been around that sector.
Haha...he wouldn't put royal purple on his kids bicycle chain.
11-10-2012, 05:37 AM
#79
I just checked autozones site for the 20w50.....says its not able to be shipped to any US state. Must mean its damn good stuff. Bout to order some somehow.
Another interesting thing that is overlooked is the priming method used before initially starting the car. A ton of the bearing life is spent when firing the motor up the first time among other places. I think Metco or someone has a pressurized tank that you can buy if you dont wanna make your own...it puts 70psi to the motor and pushes the oil in every crevice and valley and lubricates everything fully. I am not sure just turning the motor over is quite as good, but that works too. The simplest things we overlook can be the downfall of these gems sitting under our hoods so I am all for these threads. I am always impressed by high hp cars, but even moreso when they keep running and running with no problems like the energizer bunny. I would trust alchemists recommendations being that hes a chemist and all and has been around that sector.
Haha...he wouldn't put royal purple on his kids bicycle chain.
Another interesting thing that is overlooked is the priming method used before initially starting the car. A ton of the bearing life is spent when firing the motor up the first time among other places. I think Metco or someone has a pressurized tank that you can buy if you dont wanna make your own...it puts 70psi to the motor and pushes the oil in every crevice and valley and lubricates everything fully. I am not sure just turning the motor over is quite as good, but that works too. The simplest things we overlook can be the downfall of these gems sitting under our hoods so I am all for these threads. I am always impressed by high hp cars, but even moreso when they keep running and running with no problems like the energizer bunny. I would trust alchemists recommendations being that hes a chemist and all and has been around that sector.
Haha...he wouldn't put royal purple on his kids bicycle chain.
I'm in pretty tight with people who do oil analysis on the entire market, hence why I chose to run what I run. I too was concerned about dry startups, hence why I went with coated race bearings for the mains and rods.
11-10-2012, 10:11 AM
#80
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you can get the 20w-50 vr1 straight from autozone...my local stores have it, and they can also order and get it straight to the store.
with running 20w-50, as it is "thicker" and has such a higher cSt rating, you would have more losses due to lubrication but it would damn sure protect it.
I'm looking at 0w-40 and 10w-40 w/ZDDP additive at this point
with running 20w-50, as it is "thicker" and has such a higher cSt rating, you would have more losses due to lubrication but it would damn sure protect it.
I'm looking at 0w-40 and 10w-40 w/ZDDP additive at this point