The power (Literally) of ignition timing
12-24-2012, 12:06 PM
#43
In my experiences heat range 8 plug is not very streetable. Too easy to have them foul out when just out cruising. Still rockin a HR 6 with 750 whp. Check them frequently and they are fine. I may try a 7 this year and see how it goes.
12-24-2012, 12:23 PM
#44
I mis-spoke. I went from a TR6 extended tip to a TR-7 non protuding tip plug.
Also, I think the point of this thread was to show data demonstrating what a few degrees of timing is worth in real world terms when it comes to mild amounts of boost. We all know that more timing is more power up to a certain point, then it becomes detrimental to engine longevity.
Also, I think the point of this thread was to show data demonstrating what a few degrees of timing is worth in real world terms when it comes to mild amounts of boost. We all know that more timing is more power up to a certain point, then it becomes detrimental to engine longevity.
12-26-2012, 12:06 AM
#48
12-26-2012, 12:31 AM
#49
interesting thread. I liked denmah's answer. made the most sense to me. if power is what your after through timing, and your seeing a certain average gain, when it stop making that power as routinely as it was, you can hang it up, back off a little and then maybe even add methanol if you really wanna put some insurance on it.
That is my approach for this springs tuning session. Although with e85 making a bigger boom, the gains may be more impressive per degree. Guess I will find out and record it for a thread later on.
NGK recommends 8's for us per there own tech support. 7's will work too but were not what was recommended to me by them.
That is my approach for this springs tuning session. Although with e85 making a bigger boom, the gains may be more impressive per degree. Guess I will find out and record it for a thread later on.
NGK recommends 8's for us per there own tech support. 7's will work too but were not what was recommended to me by them.
01-10-2013, 11:46 PM
#51
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Projected tip plugs work very well in forced air applications as well. They allow them to keep from getting carbon fouled as quickly as a non-projected tip but still resist pre-ignition from a hot tip.
My street car is a NA/Nitrous setup so a non-projected tip plug is desired over projected. It is a simple heads cam stock bottom LS1 and it runs perfectly fine on non-projected 8's. Actually made its fastest NA pass at the track with them because being a full accessory fbody isn't the funnest job to change all 8 plugs at the track.
The one problem I can see with alot of boost and retarded timing is exhaust gas temps and burning valves. With that much air and fuel there is going to be heat and if it's fired late to prevent too much in the chamber it'll be in the exhaust. So sometimes too little is also a bad thing.
My street car is a NA/Nitrous setup so a non-projected tip plug is desired over projected. It is a simple heads cam stock bottom LS1 and it runs perfectly fine on non-projected 8's. Actually made its fastest NA pass at the track with them because being a full accessory fbody isn't the funnest job to change all 8 plugs at the track.
The one problem I can see with alot of boost and retarded timing is exhaust gas temps and burning valves. With that much air and fuel there is going to be heat and if it's fired late to prevent too much in the chamber it'll be in the exhaust. So sometimes too little is also a bad thing.
01-11-2013, 12:38 AM
#53
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Every setup is different but I'm gonna say thats pretty aggressive on timing with just 92 octane... Best bet is to start off closer to 12-13* and check plugs. Increase the timing incrementally until you start seeing some heat in the plugs and with each increase verify fueling. Some setups take alot more than others and the closest one to your setup I've had was a magnacharged LS6 with a 224 cam and I ended up at 14-15* if memory serves with that setup on straight pump gas.
My advice is to put a methanol kit on it and don't use that sissy 50/50 mix... then throw some timing at it and it'll make a ton more power. Picked a cam/header/maggy 2300 LS2 up 100rwhp with methanol. Could only manage 13* on 93 octane. Added a Snow st2 kit with the largest single nozzle they had and pure methanol and was able to get 21* in it with 100rwhp more. Cooler charge temps and proper heat mark on plugs still. Meth.... its addicting LOL
My advice is to put a methanol kit on it and don't use that sissy 50/50 mix... then throw some timing at it and it'll make a ton more power. Picked a cam/header/maggy 2300 LS2 up 100rwhp with methanol. Could only manage 13* on 93 octane. Added a Snow st2 kit with the largest single nozzle they had and pure methanol and was able to get 21* in it with 100rwhp more. Cooler charge temps and proper heat mark on plugs still. Meth.... its addicting LOL
01-11-2013, 12:44 AM
#54
This is something you can really see on higher boosted honda turbo setups. They HAVE to add timing to get it to smooth out up top.
Also IMO, timing is harder to hook than boost, we run REALLY low timing down low on the street tires to make it hook, sad how much boost we can shove down it if the timing is low and still stay hooked on a pure street tire lol.
Also IMO, timing is harder to hook than boost, we run REALLY low timing down low on the street tires to make it hook, sad how much boost we can shove down it if the timing is low and still stay hooked on a pure street tire lol.
Timing is such a great traction tuning tool, because you can catch the slip very quickly, and add it back it, again, very quickly.
If we remove timing you can imagine the power loss. We are talking a 150-200 hp loss at the 600 hp level, thats equivalent of 8-10 psi of boost, but you can ramp it back in in a split second
If we remove timing you can imagine the power loss. We are talking a 150-200 hp loss at the 600 hp level, thats equivalent of 8-10 psi of boost, but you can ramp it back in in a split second
Great thread
01-11-2013, 07:15 AM
#55
Projected tip plugs work very well in forced air applications as well. They allow them to keep from getting carbon fouled as quickly as a non-projected tip but still resist pre-ignition from a hot tip.
My street car is a NA/Nitrous setup so a non-projected tip plug is desired over projected. It is a simple heads cam stock bottom LS1 and it runs perfectly fine on non-projected 8's. Actually made its fastest NA pass at the track with them because being a full accessory fbody isn't the funnest job to change all 8 plugs at the track.
The one problem I can see with alot of boost and retarded timing is exhaust gas temps and burning valves. With that much air and fuel there is going to be heat and if it's fired late to prevent too much in the chamber it'll be in the exhaust. So sometimes too little is also a bad thing.
My street car is a NA/Nitrous setup so a non-projected tip plug is desired over projected. It is a simple heads cam stock bottom LS1 and it runs perfectly fine on non-projected 8's. Actually made its fastest NA pass at the track with them because being a full accessory fbody isn't the funnest job to change all 8 plugs at the track.
The one problem I can see with alot of boost and retarded timing is exhaust gas temps and burning valves. With that much air and fuel there is going to be heat and if it's fired late to prevent too much in the chamber it'll be in the exhaust. So sometimes too little is also a bad thing.
01-11-2013, 01:04 PM
#57
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Usually traction control features won't do it because its such a short burst of timing pull usually that it doesn't generate enough heat. What I was mainly talking about is running the engine too low on timing all the time to get more boost or nitrous in the chamber on a lower octane fuel. That's when you start to see parts melt.
01-11-2013, 01:17 PM
#58
Usually traction control features won't do it because its such a short burst of timing pull usually that it doesn't generate enough heat. What I was mainly talking about is running the engine too low on timing all the time to get more boost or nitrous in the chamber on a lower octane fuel. That's when you start to see parts melt.
01-11-2013, 03:17 PM
#60
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Mostly setup dependent. Nitrous cars are worse due to the increase oxygen content vs forced air cars. Think of it like acetylene torches and then hitting the oxygen button...