I finally got anti lag to work!
Pulled down to -10 degrees at 2800, 2 step at 2950. Yes, -10 degrees of timing when it is activated.
Mike
Last edited by OldGold; Feb 25, 2013 at 02:31 PM.
Here is my car playing around with the anti-lag. It it set to retard 10 degrees of timing at 2700 rpm and to cut ignition at 2950. I am still not building what I consider to be enough, or fast enough. Matt was able to build right up to 14 much quicker than I am. I am scratching my head a bit on this one.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SIHY...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SIHY...ature=youtu.be
You need to have at least 24-28 degrees in it when you're building your initial 7-9psi of boost if not 28-36*. Think N/A tune-up until you're solidly into boost.
You need to advance the timing and lean it out until you get 7-8psi built or more. Then once you get that boost built, jerk the rug out from under it by retarding the timing and adding fuel. If you don't advance the timing and lean it out first it will take forever to build boost and won't ever reach what you want.
You need to have at least 24-28 degrees in it when you're building your initial 7-9psi of boost if not 28-36*. Think N/A tune-up until you're solidly into boost.
You need to have at least 24-28 degrees in it when you're building your initial 7-9psi of boost if not 28-36*. Think N/A tune-up until you're solidly into boost.
I went outside last night and messed around with it with more timing, moved the 2 step up, moved the retard up, but I am still having issues. I am going to move everything down next, the 2 step and where it dumps timing. I don't understand why I am struggling to build 10 psi, but Matt was able to just drop the hammer and build 14 quickly. It seems like I am not making it to ignition cut, but he did quite easily.
Do you have a main timing table you can use to have advanced timing on the footbrake while beginning to build boost, and then transition to your spark cut after you have boost built from the advanced timing? Is that launch control operated via relay?
This is the timing table:
Mike
Last edited by OldGold; Feb 25, 2013 at 01:55 PM.
Then I would set the timing up to where it was advanced in the way I discussed up to the RPM your two step is set, then ramp it out as needed as boost comes in while moving down track or down the road.
Then have your launch control triggered by a switch to cut timing once some boost is built.
Then have your launch control triggered by a switch to cut timing once some boost is built.
Then I would set the timing up to where it was advanced in the way I discussed up to the RPM your two step is set, then ramp it out as needed as boost comes in while moving down track or down the road.
Then have your launch control triggered by a switch to cut timing once some boost is built.
Then have your launch control triggered by a switch to cut timing once some boost is built.
Is that correct?
Mike
So, basically that block up to 2800 RPM and up to 150 KPA, you would run as much as 26-28 degrees of timing? That is what you are saying, if I am getting this right. My issue is that all I have is a footbrake, so basically I would have to footbrake, build some boost...hit the two step and dump out from 26-28 degrees of advance to whatever you think would be a good reduction in timing to get it to spool.
Is that correct?
Mike
Is that correct?
Mike
What I would do is where you're currently at 22, 24 and 26 degrees of timing in the 2800rpm cell from 80-125KPA change it to read 32 degrees at 80KPA, 28 degrees at 100KPA, 26 degrees at 125 and then 22 degrees at 150kpa and then at 220 have it back to 15 degrees. Then from 2800rpm and lower rpm in the corresponding 80-150KPA cells copy and paste the changes you just made.
Also where you have it at 34 degrees at 50kpa right now in the 2800rpm cells I would leave it at 34 degrees all the way to 60kpa and then at 80kpa have it at 32 degrees like I suggested in my above paragraph. Then copy and paste the 34 degree cells from 50kpa to 60 kpa in the corresponding 2200rpm and 1800rpm cells.
Do you still have TR6 plugs in that thing?
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What I would do is where you're currently at 22, 24 and 26 degrees of timing in the 2800rpm cell from 80-125KPA change it to read 32 degrees at 80KPA, 28 degrees at 100KPA, 26 degrees at 125 and then 22 degrees at 150kpa and then at 220 have it back to 15 degrees. Then from 2800rpm and lower rpm in the corresponding 80-150KPA cells copy and paste the changes you just made.
Also where you have it at 34 degrees at 50kpa right now in the 2800rpm cells I would leave it at 34 degrees all the way to 60kpa and then at 80kpa have it at 32 degrees like I suggested in my above paragraph. Then copy and paste the 34 degree cells from 50kpa to 60 kpa in the corresponding 2200rpm and 1800rpm cells.
Do you still have TR6 plugs in that thing?
What I would do is where you're currently at 22, 24 and 26 degrees of timing in the 2800rpm cell from 80-125KPA change it to read 32 degrees at 80KPA, 28 degrees at 100KPA, 26 degrees at 125 and then 22 degrees at 150kpa and then at 220 have it back to 15 degrees. Then from 2800rpm and lower rpm in the corresponding 80-150KPA cells copy and paste the changes you just made.
Also where you have it at 34 degrees at 50kpa right now in the 2800rpm cells I would leave it at 34 degrees all the way to 60kpa and then at 80kpa have it at 32 degrees like I suggested in my above paragraph. Then copy and paste the 34 degree cells from 50kpa to 60 kpa in the corresponding 2200rpm and 1800rpm cells.
Do you still have TR6 plugs in that thing?
Also, how much timing do I dump? As you see, it dumps not a specific amount of timing, but TO a specific amount of timing. So, if I am dumping timing at 2700 RPM, I need to know what to command the timing to be, or how much to pull and I can figure out the number.
Mike
Last edited by OldGold; Feb 25, 2013 at 05:09 PM.
I don't know about the plugs, I will have to ask Matt as I have not messed with plugs in this car. The old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.
Also, how much timing do I dump? As you see, it dumps not a specific amount of timing, but TO a specific amount of timing. So, if I am dumping timing at 2700 RPM, I need to know what to command the timing to be, or how much to pull and I can figure out the number.
Mike
Also, how much timing do I dump? As you see, it dumps not a specific amount of timing, but TO a specific amount of timing. So, if I am dumping timing at 2700 RPM, I need to know what to command the timing to be, or how much to pull and I can figure out the number.
Mike
I always pulled between 8-12* and it worked very well for me, BUT I had to have at least 7-8psi built before I could dump the timing or it would never spool.
Mike
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
With the launch active and enough timing retard, you should be able to build enough boost to blow the engine to bits in a couple of seconds after going WOT.
Use the retard, but it'll be trial and error to find what works best. Keep an eye on EGT's when testing though, as they can get very high very quickly using this method.
I'd have thought that 10 deg ATDC would have been enough to really have it spool up though. But you're basically firing the spark with the exhaust valve open so it drives the turbo instantly.
Use the retard, but it'll be trial and error to find what works best. Keep an eye on EGT's when testing though, as they can get very high very quickly using this method.
I'd have thought that 10 deg ATDC would have been enough to really have it spool up though. But you're basically firing the spark with the exhaust valve open so it drives the turbo instantly.
With the launch active and enough timing retard, you should be able to build enough boost to blow the engine to bits in a couple of seconds after going WOT.
Use the retard, but it'll be trial and error to find what works best. Keep an eye on EGT's when testing though, as they can get very high very quickly using this method.
I'd have thought that 10 deg ATDC would have been enough to really have it spool up though. But you're basically firing the spark with the exhaust valve open so it drives the turbo instantly.
Use the retard, but it'll be trial and error to find what works best. Keep an eye on EGT's when testing though, as they can get very high very quickly using this method.
I'd have thought that 10 deg ATDC would have been enough to really have it spool up though. But you're basically firing the spark with the exhaust valve open so it drives the turbo instantly.
Mike
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
It does spool up pretty well, but hits a wall because I am not hitting the actual spark cut. It is a battle between the converter and the massively retarded timing, and the converter is winning. I am first going to drop everything down a couple hundred RPM to see if it will still spool and if it will get to the limiter. Works like a monster in N, but that is only good for a fireball show. I need this boost to get this car to 60.
Mike
Mike
Auto's need timing and lean AFR to build boost initially...quickly and not put a ton of heat in the transmission.
If you try to retard the timing you end up taking forever to build boost which puts too much heat in the trans and on the exhaust valve.
Try what I suggested with the timing table and see what it does. I think you will find that you're able to build boost much faster with advanced timing than with retarded timing.
If you try to retard the timing you end up taking forever to build boost which puts too much heat in the trans and on the exhaust valve.
Try what I suggested with the timing table and see what it does. I think you will find that you're able to build boost much faster with advanced timing than with retarded timing.
Auto's need timing and lean AFR to build boost initially...quickly and not put a ton of heat in the transmission.
If you try to retard the timing you end up taking forever to build boost which puts too much heat in the trans and on the exhaust valve.
Try what I suggested with the timing table and see what it does. I think you will find that you're able to build boost much faster with advanced timing than with retarded timing.
If you try to retard the timing you end up taking forever to build boost which puts too much heat in the trans and on the exhaust valve.
Try what I suggested with the timing table and see what it does. I think you will find that you're able to build boost much faster with advanced timing than with retarded timing.
Here is the table now, please let me know if this is what you had in mind. I also have the anti-lag set to pull the timing down to 10 degrees total, which I will push once I have built some boost.
Mike
Last edited by OldGold; Feb 26, 2013 at 10:03 AM.
I am willing to try, but my concern is detonation. Let's keep in mind that Matt pancaked the rings on 3-4 sets of pistons in this motor because he was too aggressive with the timing. It does dump a huge amount of heat into the trans doing this the way it is currently set up, that is correct and that is a concern. However, I don't know if I will be able to build ANY boost just on the footbrake before I start dumping the timing as you suggested. However, I am willing to experiment. I will write the tune up and see what it does.
Here is the table now, please let me know if this is what you had in mind. I also have the anti-lag set to pull the timing down to 10 degrees total, which I will push once I have built some boost.
Mike
Here is the table now, please let me know if this is what you had in mind. I also have the anti-lag set to pull the timing down to 10 degrees total, which I will push once I have built some boost.
Mike
That looks like a good start. Just think about it this way, we run N/A engines at 93-98kpa at 28-30* timing. Why not run a boosted engine at 22-28 from 1-5psi? If you think about it that way it's not so bad. I've run my personal cars this way and plenty of other customer cars, actually more timing than what you currently have in that table.
I think another reason Matt hurt the rings is from too hot of a plug which is why I asked you if you still had the TR6's in there. I'd run a -8 heat range projected tip if I were you.
Mike,
That looks like a good start. Just think about it this way, we run N/A engines at 93-98kpa at 28-30* timing. Why not run a boosted engine at 22-28 from 1-5psi? If you think about it that way it's not so bad. I've run my personal cars this way and plenty of other customer cars, actually more timing than what you currently have in that table.
I think another reason Matt hurt the rings is from too hot of a plug which is why I asked you if you still had the TR6's in there. I'd run a -8 heat range projected tip if I were you.
That looks like a good start. Just think about it this way, we run N/A engines at 93-98kpa at 28-30* timing. Why not run a boosted engine at 22-28 from 1-5psi? If you think about it that way it's not so bad. I've run my personal cars this way and plenty of other customer cars, actually more timing than what you currently have in that table.
I think another reason Matt hurt the rings is from too hot of a plug which is why I asked you if you still had the TR6's in there. I'd run a -8 heat range projected tip if I were you.
Mike