How to Microsquirt fuel and spark your LSX swap (sloppy mechanics how to!) 8-10-13
02-13-2015, 12:26 PM
#201
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I'm new here but I've been reading up on micro s and ms1 So I'm looking at all the options micro has but what is the advantiges of ms3?
Just the fact that you can control each injecter individualy? Its hard to find more info on 3.
ALSO DENMAH YOUR AWESOME! I have been researching your work all week. I have the same adiction to cheap hp and cars lol
So I was looking for the cheapest way to get an ls ran by any version of the ms family but I want the posability of A/C. The micro as far as I can see does not do that?
I do how ever have an idea of how to use my factery controls like the a/c button and relay to be wired in parallel with the IAT and use the 12v car power to pull the coil in, but use the 5v+ wire heading to the IAT. But In parellel hook it to the nornally open contact pn that relay and use a rezistor or diode to make the MS think this rezistor is telling it that the temp is actually cold enough to need added fuel and it would then rev the car up and your relay on the car side would also pull in your electric fan and a/c compessor. But when it actually is cold you can still use you IAT because you do no have the ac pulled in. And if you defrost is on the car thinks is 0 instead of 30 out. And idles the engine up higher.
Maybe I'm crazy or maybe its been done? I'm an industrial maitenince technicion. I understand logic But I've never tuned any thing but I have alot of industrial plc experience.
Let me know if I'm crazy or miss lead to how the intake air teprature sensor works with the M/S. Also if I'm halfway correct I can drawl up what I'm saying and post that.
Just the fact that you can control each injecter individualy? Its hard to find more info on 3.
ALSO DENMAH YOUR AWESOME! I have been researching your work all week. I have the same adiction to cheap hp and cars lol
So I was looking for the cheapest way to get an ls ran by any version of the ms family but I want the posability of A/C. The micro as far as I can see does not do that?
I do how ever have an idea of how to use my factery controls like the a/c button and relay to be wired in parallel with the IAT and use the 12v car power to pull the coil in, but use the 5v+ wire heading to the IAT. But In parellel hook it to the nornally open contact pn that relay and use a rezistor or diode to make the MS think this rezistor is telling it that the temp is actually cold enough to need added fuel and it would then rev the car up and your relay on the car side would also pull in your electric fan and a/c compessor. But when it actually is cold you can still use you IAT because you do no have the ac pulled in. And if you defrost is on the car thinks is 0 instead of 30 out. And idles the engine up higher.
Maybe I'm crazy or maybe its been done? I'm an industrial maitenince technicion. I understand logic But I've never tuned any thing but I have alot of industrial plc experience.
Let me know if I'm crazy or miss lead to how the intake air teprature sensor works with the M/S. Also if I'm halfway correct I can drawl up what I'm saying and post that.
02-13-2015, 12:40 PM
#202
there are large differences between what the MS3 is capable of and what the Micro can do
i did a video update recently for the ms3 gold box i am using now in my f5
micro will put a car into the 8s its reliable, proven, and works great
if thats all you need its a good starting point also cheaper etc.
but for flat out retarded, bump box, boost control traction control, 2nd fuel pumps, nitrous methnaol, you name it, the ms3 can do all of them
sequential fueling is nice, but you really have to have 8 widebands to fully utilize this feature and tune for it
i did a video update recently for the ms3 gold box i am using now in my f5
micro will put a car into the 8s its reliable, proven, and works great
if thats all you need its a good starting point also cheaper etc.
but for flat out retarded, bump box, boost control traction control, 2nd fuel pumps, nitrous methnaol, you name it, the ms3 can do all of them
sequential fueling is nice, but you really have to have 8 widebands to fully utilize this feature and tune for it
02-17-2015, 10:22 PM
#203
What do you have your cranking RPM and startup settings at? Looks like I only see 140-150 cranking RPM. MS lowest setting is 200 rpm. Once started mine runs great but I get the occasional starter kick back. Wondering if this is common with the MS LSx engine setups.
02-22-2015, 01:27 PM
#206
Set cranking RPM to 200.
On the ignition options page there is a field called "skip pulses". This is default to 3.
The number of tach input pulses at start-up that are ignored before ignition calculations and wheel decoding begins.
Zero starter kick back now. Starts up great every time.
Screen shot is from my desktop so none of the other setting are for an "LS".
02-26-2015, 07:59 PM
#207
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Played with this a bit yesterday and found a "cure".
Set cranking RPM to 200.
On the ignition options page there is a field called "skip pulses". This is default to 3.
Set this to 7. Then set cranking advance to "0" degrees and moved crank dwell from 6ms to 4.5ms.
Zero starter kick back now. Starts up great every time.
Screen shot is from my desktop so none of the other setting are for an "LS".
Set cranking RPM to 200.
On the ignition options page there is a field called "skip pulses". This is default to 3.
Set this to 7. Then set cranking advance to "0" degrees and moved crank dwell from 6ms to 4.5ms.
Zero starter kick back now. Starts up great every time.
Screen shot is from my desktop so none of the other setting are for an "LS".
02-27-2015, 09:42 AM
#208
Hey Matt did you get the sequential COP setup on the new Fairmont build? Tried switching mine over and it just backfired during cranking and would not start. Not sure what the trick is. Guys on the MS forums were saying the seq COP is much better in terms of spark potency and were asking why I wasn't running it... Then gave no input as to why it doesn't seem to work for me.
02-27-2015, 10:15 AM
#209
Teching In
Hey Matt did you get the sequential COP setup on the new Fairmont build? Tried switching mine over and it just backfired during cranking and would not start. Not sure what the trick is. Guys on the MS forums were saying the seq COP is much better in terms of spark potency and were asking why I wasn't running it... Then gave no input as to why it doesn't seem to work for me.
Then I changed the timing cover and added a sensor on the front with the correct sprocket. It backfired again because the wiring of the sensor is different between the front and rear sensor. When I corrected the wiring it started evrytime without any backfire.
Do you see the cam signal on the composite logger in tunerstudio?
Look here for the cam sensor wiring depending if it is a 24 or 58 teeth wheel crank:
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...=54392#p402933
Last edited by gui67; 02-27-2015 at 10:25 AM.
02-27-2015, 10:37 AM
#210
Is your cam signal OK? I had the same problem initially when I used a LS2 cam in my 5.3 (sensor on the back). I had no signal and it started randomly either on the right cylinder or 360° off and backfired.
Then I changed the timing cover and added a sensor on the front with the correct sprocket. It backfired again because the wiring of the sensor is different between the front and rear sensor. When I corrected the wiring it started evrytime without any backfire.
Do you see the cam signal on the composite logger in tunerstudio?
Then I changed the timing cover and added a sensor on the front with the correct sprocket. It backfired again because the wiring of the sensor is different between the front and rear sensor. When I corrected the wiring it started evrytime without any backfire.
Do you see the cam signal on the composite logger in tunerstudio?
I believe so, I’ll have to verify. It appears to be using seq. fuel just fine. I’m using a 24t crank and have a cam with the correct 1-tooth signal on the back.
I assumed I didn’t have the ignition settings correct. Can you post up a screen shot of your settings? Thanks!
04-08-2015, 03:29 PM
#212
Has anyone piggybacked a micosquirt v3 with a drive by wire GM computer?
I want to sell just my motor with a microsquirt, But right now the car is running off a red & blue GM drive by cable computer so I want to unplug the injectors and coils and run the motor off the Microsquirt for the new buyer.
So do I just tap into the crank sensor wires that are going the computer ? I don't want to wreck the microsquirt or the GM computer.
Stacy
PS
I called Mike @ efi source and he wasn't sure.
I want to sell just my motor with a microsquirt, But right now the car is running off a red & blue GM drive by cable computer so I want to unplug the injectors and coils and run the motor off the Microsquirt for the new buyer.
So do I just tap into the crank sensor wires that are going the computer ? I don't want to wreck the microsquirt or the GM computer.
Stacy
PS
I called Mike @ efi source and he wasn't sure.
04-08-2015, 06:16 PM
#213
TECH Apprentice
The Microsquirt(or any stand alone) will need too many shared inputs to work easily, and everyone of those shared inputs is a chance for the factory computer to get a "garbage" input, same with the Microsquirt(or any stand alone), and those "garbage" inputs are way more likely to cause problems in a DBW installation.
Could it work?... probably, with shared crank signal, and new clt, and iat sensors installed(those can't be shared reliably), but now to the tps sensor,it gets tricky with a "drive by wire" setup, and sharing it, may be problematic for the factory computer. because of the TPS "up", and the TPS"down", for lack of better words, signals being compared by the factory computer to determine faults. hooking the microsquirt to only one may alter the signal to the factory computer only .01 volts, but that could be enough to trip a "limp mode".
I doubt anyone has ever tried to do it because the conversion to cable throttle is so easy, but I imagine with enough time and effort, it could work, but I would hate to be the one figuring out what the factory computer will accept for error, before going to "reduced power" or "limp mode".
Could it work?... probably, with shared crank signal, and new clt, and iat sensors installed(those can't be shared reliably), but now to the tps sensor,it gets tricky with a "drive by wire" setup, and sharing it, may be problematic for the factory computer. because of the TPS "up", and the TPS"down", for lack of better words, signals being compared by the factory computer to determine faults. hooking the microsquirt to only one may alter the signal to the factory computer only .01 volts, but that could be enough to trip a "limp mode".
I doubt anyone has ever tried to do it because the conversion to cable throttle is so easy, but I imagine with enough time and effort, it could work, but I would hate to be the one figuring out what the factory computer will accept for error, before going to "reduced power" or "limp mode".
04-09-2015, 12:58 AM
#214
Dang... I hate brain farts... I meant to say drive by cable... so sorry ! will it work with a cable computer and throttle body????
Stacy
Stacy
The Microsquirt(or any stand alone) will need too many shared inputs to work easily, and everyone of those shared inputs is a chance for the factory computer to get a "garbage" input, same with the Microsquirt(or any stand alone), and those "garbage" inputs are way more likely to cause problems in a DBW installation.
Could it work?... probably, with shared crank signal, and new clt, and iat sensors installed(those can't be shared reliably), but now to the tps sensor,it gets tricky with a "drive by wire" setup, and sharing it, may be problematic for the factory computer. because of the TPS "up", and the TPS"down", for lack of better words, signals being compared by the factory computer to determine faults. hooking the microsquirt to only one may alter the signal to the factory computer only .01 volts, but that could be enough to trip a "limp mode".
I doubt anyone has ever tried to do it because the conversion to cable throttle is so easy, but I imagine with enough time and effort, it could work, but I would hate to be the one figuring out what the factory computer will accept for error, before going to "reduced power" or "limp mode".
Could it work?... probably, with shared crank signal, and new clt, and iat sensors installed(those can't be shared reliably), but now to the tps sensor,it gets tricky with a "drive by wire" setup, and sharing it, may be problematic for the factory computer. because of the TPS "up", and the TPS"down", for lack of better words, signals being compared by the factory computer to determine faults. hooking the microsquirt to only one may alter the signal to the factory computer only .01 volts, but that could be enough to trip a "limp mode".
I doubt anyone has ever tried to do it because the conversion to cable throttle is so easy, but I imagine with enough time and effort, it could work, but I would hate to be the one figuring out what the factory computer will accept for error, before going to "reduced power" or "limp mode".
04-13-2015, 06:13 PM
#215
Do I have to change anything in the settings to make the micro use the additional WLED and ALED as spark outputs? How would it know to use these? I only see IGN1 as my option for spark outputs. And I can only choose 1?
I have Stacey's micro box and harness installed, Using the I/O testing all the injs fire, I get RPM and a steady crank signal. I'm getting no spark and can't figure it out. It is properly grounded to the head only. Checked my pins on the coil harness and they are wired correctly. Have 12v with IGN on.
Only think I can think of is he loaded the 3.3.3 on the micro before he sent it to me. I went to the MS2 3.3.3 firmware and set it up that ini on a new project and all seems well. When I go to load your fairmont tune it's an old firmware version and has errors.
Has anyone tried the 3.3.3 with micro and coils wired as indicated in this thread? Can I get teh old firmware somewhere to try?
I believe Stacey had an engine running with this setup, so I don't' think it's a wiring issue.
I have Stacey's micro box and harness installed, Using the I/O testing all the injs fire, I get RPM and a steady crank signal. I'm getting no spark and can't figure it out. It is properly grounded to the head only. Checked my pins on the coil harness and they are wired correctly. Have 12v with IGN on.
Only think I can think of is he loaded the 3.3.3 on the micro before he sent it to me. I went to the MS2 3.3.3 firmware and set it up that ini on a new project and all seems well. When I go to load your fairmont tune it's an old firmware version and has errors.
Has anyone tried the 3.3.3 with micro and coils wired as indicated in this thread? Can I get teh old firmware somewhere to try?
I believe Stacey had an engine running with this setup, so I don't' think it's a wiring issue.
spark A - IGNout - white - Firing Cyl 1 and 6
spark B - IGNout 2 - white/red - Firing Cyl 5 and 8
spark C - WLED - yellow/white - Firing Cyl 7 and 4
spark D - ALED - yellow/black - Firing Cyl 3 and 2
spark B - IGNout 2 - white/red - Firing Cyl 5 and 8
spark C - WLED - yellow/white - Firing Cyl 7 and 4
spark D - ALED - yellow/black - Firing Cyl 3 and 2
Last edited by Forcefed86; 04-13-2015 at 06:30 PM.
04-13-2015, 08:37 PM
#219
http://www.msextra.com/downloads/
04-13-2015, 08:46 PM
#220
TECH Apprentice
Yes that is the download, you run the msloader32, and then in the prompts in the program it will use the right .s19 file if you select microsquirt when it asks you witch version of MSII you are trying to flash.
do you have the pull up resistors install on the aled, wled outputs?
did you select the ls1 wheel decoder in the msq?(this is done in tunerstudio)
do you have the pull up resistors install on the aled, wled outputs?
did you select the ls1 wheel decoder in the msq?(this is done in tunerstudio)