2002TTTA

MM built that car exactly the way he wanted it. The way he built it he won multiple titles and lots of press about the car. Now the new owner wants to be known or have all the credit for what the car does. All he had to do was change it to his liking and run faster without bashing the previous owner or parts that made the car known. Most shop bash parts or motors only to sell you the same thing with a different look for more money to make a sell.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

Can't you just feel the love coming from that last sentence. . . .

You guys just crack me up. Its funny the resentment that MM feels when something is changed on the car. Shouldn't have ever sold it if this is how you feel about it now.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

I think it has more to do with the person taking a shot at MM.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

I've seen that so many times.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

I think tuners get it the worst lol. Especially with mail orders then going somewhere else for the dyno tune. My car made xx more power its great but is now pushing 32 deg of timing.

Flash car looks good and performs the same.

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

Except that's not the case here.

EDIT: I'd like to clarify that I think a lot of people on here will vouch for me that I'm a pretty straight shooter as well. The poster above me, MUSTANGBRKR02 was someone I gave a bit of technical assistance to over the phone a couple of years back on weekend I had off, and I built Cam72aro's 4L80E with him in his garage a few weeks after this story took place and we're pretty good friends. Mike13, I could very well be wrong and confusing you with another Mikesomething on here, but depending on where you bought your 4L80E from, if I didn't built the whole thing then I had a at least definitely had a hand in building your 4L80E. Your username seems extremely familiar to me, but like I said, it's been a couple of years and I could definitely be wrong with so many members on here.
/EDIT

Flash contacted me quite awhile back about a possible rebuild because he was losing 1st gear which seemed strange to me. I went up to his house and asked him to move the car back a bit so we could jack up the car and I could take off the pan and look. He tried to but then discovered he lost reverse as well so we just pushed it back.

I took the pan off and knew the trans was trashed immediately. I called Jim @ Transformance to ask him some details about the build so I would know what to expect. Super nice guy, very friendly, but he couldn't remember much about the transmission. He knew for sure it had at least a billet mainshaft and forward hub, but didn't remember if it had a stock mainshaft or not and said it had a "stock 36 element sprag". With as much "trans builder's etiquette" as I could I politely corrected him and said it had to be a 34 element sprag as the 36 is definitely not stock. He just knew it was the stock unit.

Anyways, I removed most of the trans, but a very very stubborn converter bolt had other plans and Flash and his buddies finished the job a few weeks later and sent it up to the shop.

I've torn down hundreds of transmissions at this point and this was probably the most trashed 4L80E I have ever seen. It's to be expected from a car at this level, but there were some mismatched parts, the entire lower gear train had an improper combination of parts from different models years. The sun gear tube bushings had very oddly cut lube holes, or rather what I'm guessing are supposed to be lube passages, but the sungear doesn't need lube passages cut into the bushing, and is something I have never seen before.

Here are a few pictures of the carnage.


The sungear teeth were completely trashed, don't see this happen very often. Pretty much a result of the mismatched components






Spirolox that holds the intermediate sprag in place. Completely came off and was destroyed. Spirolox here is similar to a spirolox that you would find on a piston wrist pin. Don't really see these fail


Clutches burnt to a crisp. Not a big deal and not really a builder's fault, that just happens.



Intermediate spring assembly trashed as well (2nd gear clutches destroyed with it). If you look near the inner diameter of the spring, you can see where the center support had been grinded down by the direct drum.



Bellhousing was welded and didn't give me a lot of comfort but the case was trashed anyways so it was swapped to a new case. Center support was trashed, entire low gear train assembly was trashed. Most stuff was trashed. Very few parts were reusable from the previous build.

Flash upgraded to a billet mainshaft but a new stock 34 element sprag is staying in there for now. Honestly surprised the hell out of me that the stocker lasted as long, so we'll just see what happens this time. If something happens an aluminum Pro Mod drum may be in his (hopefully distant) future


NO hate on MM or Jim @ Transformance. Jim is a super nice guy and I'm making it my policy to not badmouth anybody's work. Objectively speaking, this transmission was not built as good as it should have been. No hate to MM either as I explained to him on FB when I posted up the pictures on a friend who's a big fan of Flash's car (and a member on here) FB wall some months back and a mutual friend tagged Dave in it for him to see. I'm not trying to badmouth anybody, but I AM trying to clear up some miscommunication and keyboard speculation.

Thank you

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

couldn't agree more.. completely trashed. that's all on your boy.

when it left me it worked like this and was ''built'' just fine.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Yes you did spend quite a bit of time that weekend on the phone with me that weekend.

I honestly have had that transmission rebuilt twice now and decided that I am just going to upgrade t either the 4 or 5 here in a month or so with a converter from you guys aswell.

Sucks for all the stuff that has had to be done with Flash's car but now it is built the way that he wants it and it is still sick!

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Bryan, you'd be better off not badmouthing the previous owner's parts. The car looks the same, but you've done your own host of modifications now and it has a different purpose. Dave, same for you. It did come off as you acting a little butt-hurt when Bryan took a knife to your car and made some changes in the past. I don't think I've seen you be supportive of someone that bought an expensive toy from you.

Summary: Bryan bought a used car at a fair price. David shouldn't be concerned about the car any longer.

Agreed?

Now I'd like to personally bash the 100 people that bought all of my used f-bodies.

mike13

iTrader: (27)

I'm not surprised you found some oddball stuff in that 4L80E, when David went to the 4L80 there wasn't much being down with them yet or I should say they hadn't caught on. What we take for granted today was new stuff when he built the car. Not many people going in the 8's with a street car at the time.

Trav's_TransAm

iTrader: (5)

100% agree. There wasn't the abundance of knowledge back then as there is today. Its common occurance now for a high HP f-body to have a 4l80.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

Tony if he wants to ruin the car that's his business. But to lie about who built what or slander that it was even built by the host of awesome help I had along the way, I will defend till I am banned.

http://mightym0use.wix.com/mm-solutions

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Glad it's going back together. I can understand both sides to this.
I loved it when Dave had it. Been to the track with him a couple times. Car ran awesome and did exactly what Dave built it for.

Now Flash has it and is doing what he wants.... "UGR Lambo Hunting". Even though it think he'll need at least 500 more rwhp


There's no reason to get in a pissing match.
I love what both of you have done. It gives others goals for there cars.
Myself included

Kyle

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

Well I can't disagree that it worked and lasted for you, but honestly we all considered that more of a mechanical miracle more than anything. But the results do not lie, it did technically take that beating.

Well hold on here for a second, because that's not exactly true. Just want to re-iterate this is in no way bashing or slandering, I just like to deliver information from an objective standpoint. I often tend to be the devil's advocate as well just so people can hear both sides of an issue as fully as possible, although in this case I find myself not being one of the people on the sidelines

Nothing that was wrong with the build was new knowledge or information. It's not like the LSx motors, the 4L80E has over a half decade head start on R&D over an LSx motor, and at the time of the build, even if the build was done 10 years ago, the knowledge is easily carried over from a TH400. There are very few differences in the back half of a 4L80E or a TH400. Mismatching gearsets isn't an issue of "an abundance of knowledge" or "research and development". The direct drum on a 4L80E and a TH400 is almost exactly the same as well, assuming the TH400 is the sprag style and not the roller clutch style. Literally nothing in those pictures cannot be found in a TH400, and those have had an extreme amount of research and development over the last few decades.

Just want to re-iterate I have no problems with anybody whatsoever. I'm glad to have Bryan as a customer and a friend, and when I had some pretty tough **** going on last month the guy was more understanding and supportive than I could have hoped for. Dave, although not a Texas local, is someone whom I've respected for years now as both an enthusiast and a racer, and it's not too common to find someone with his knowledge or mechanical ability who's not even a part of the auto industry, so major props to him for that. Would love to perhaps work with him someday or if I'm ever on the East coast hit him up and meet him myself

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

Now we are having a good time hahah

I better go buy a lotto ticket!

Burken01

iTrader: (88)

Badass, hard to argue with that!

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

That's actually what one of my friend's said when the trans was torn down

Like I said bro, I am definitely not hating on you or Jim, just trying to speak objectively here.

****, it's after 10AM and I haven't slept since yesterday and just got back from taking a college midterm, I probably should stay out of the technical sections right now before I post something incoherent and stupid and go to sleep

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

LMFAO!!!

Get me a ticket too Dave, you got the magic touch!

I will also say Jim built my 4L80e.

I don't think Dave cares too much about how Flash makes the car his.

It's the way he announces the changes and puts down Dave when he changes those parts. Just my perspective.

coolmanvette75

iTrader: (2)

Lol this thread is funny. Car was badass when Dave had it, and it is badass now. /discussion

With that being said, Bryan I hope you come to Corpus next month like you said. Looking forward to you showing me those tail lights on your slow tune. Hahahaha

TNTramair

iTrader: (15)

i agree and thats how im seein it aswell. OP needs to just post his upgrades and stop taking shots at Dave.