55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Thanks guys, hopefully I'll get some results this weekend form my ride height change.

Denmah, did you ever get into the 9's on the 68mm gt45? I know you haven't used one in awhile but can't remember if one of your setups got it done with this turbo.

Tjabo

This thread needs an update! Love this car.

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Got the suspension working pretty decent with the help of some more experienced drag racers. Probably the biggest difference was from swapping the front springs from 12" 130's to 14" 150's, and adding 100 lbs of ballast in the trunk. Works decent now for a 8.5 inch slick on some pretty gross asphalt. There are still some things I want to try to get it better but it has gone from spinning pretty ridiculously, to being able to make a halfway controllable full throttle pass. I'm sure it would be awesome on a prepped track now. I even let one of the guys that has been helping me use the car in a little 12 car shootout on the street, didn't win but definitely shocked some people. Going to tear the heads off this weekend and do the Chinese stud/ls9 gasket thing as it's pushing more and more water every pass now. I couldn't really use more power before but now I'm going to turn it up some and see how long it lives.

Vid of some of the testing, we got it to take a little more on the 2 step but too much more and it would spin every time. Still learning for sure.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

What kind of boost is that? Looks pretty good! I'd think you could hit the tires harder. Your getting no real rise between the tire and body. Love that you can slow the video down to .25 on youtube though I've been using the hell out of it lately trying to sort mine out!

This is my second gen after I got it dialed in. I loosened up the front end after this video and it would pull the wheels on the street with a 10" slick. If you watch it in slow motion, it shows what I'm talking about with the tire separation though.

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

I assume you are talking about the front? It's actually fully extending the front struts, which I know is a bad thing. I have plans to do some work with the upper strut mount to gain some more extension travel. I tried slowing the rebound down on the front strut but then it would spin, I think a couple more inches of extension travel will really help. How do you watch youtube in slow motion? I tried to do it with the gopro software but my computer is such a pile it locks up every time. The boost was 14 psi but only 10 degrees of timing, been trying to milk the stock head bolts and gaskets for all they're worth.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

No. I’m talking about the amount of rise you see between the top of the rear tire and the bottom of the fender when the tire hits initially on the launch. That thing should run great when you get it dialed in!

There is a little gear icon in the lower RH corner of the video player. You can change the resolution and change the play back speed.

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Yeah after watching your vid a couple more time I figured you were talking about the rear. I have a good amount of anti squat in the car now, do you think I need more or just be able to apply more power sooner? I don't have a trans brake and my converter will push through the brakes above 3 grand. Maybe I can play with the 2 step to get more boost at a lower rpm.

Thanks for the advice

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I’d get a couple hits on a sticky track and see what it does. You may be hitting the tires hard enough now to get your desired times. I had the grannysspeed torque arm assembly on my 8.8. This caused the rear suspension to drive down hard at the pavement on the launch. You could always add something similar if you don’t get your desired results.

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Well, after doing 25+ hits testing the suspension the head gaskets were begging for mercy. Finally ripped the heads off and swapped in some ls9 gaskets and china studs. Hope to get it on the dyno this week and get it turned up a bit. Motor looked great inside, I was going to check deck height to see if any rods were bending but I decided I didn't want to know



All back together

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Got the car back to the dyno. Ended up at 630 at 16 psi. Took the car to another shootout at famoso in bakersfield. It was a no times 1000' race but I was logging gps speed, car was trapping 136 at 1000' so it definitely picked up some speed. I would have to assume it was making bottom 10 second passes. Got a by in the first round due to a broken car, won the second, turned the boost up in the third, and still ended up with a loss and a couple broken ringlands . Looked back at the logs and iat's were 335 and afr was in the 12's so it was definitely operator error. Guess I cranked on the boost controller a tick too much.....

Anyway, I 'm going to throw my ls2 rods/pistons in and try again. I think I'm going to throw an injector in pre throttle body that comes in under boost to try and help the iat situation. I think It would have been fine if it was richer but shouldn't cost me much to try the injector upstream. I'm not sure if there is much left in the gt45 but i'm going to find out.

I was hoping to get your guys opinion on what I should do next to get the car to launch harder. Right now I can only raise the two step to 2950 before it pushes through the brakes. It builds 8 psi of boost there but when it launches it seems to roll out soft for ten feet before it really starts to go. I'm trying to figure out the best path to take. Loosen the converter? trans brake? also have a core powerglide I have been thinking about building and using? Car weighs 3300 with driver and I think I can get in the high 600's with this turbo. Would love to go s475 in the future. I'm loosing races on the 60'. I think the suspension is getting close and would probably even work better if the power hit harder/sooner. This is still my first v8 build so I have no real experience on what to change.

Couple vids.

yenkomike

iTrader: (2)

335 iat?? WOW.

that small compressor and no intercooler are holding you back.

what fuel and timing were you running?

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, that's the highest I have ever seen. The ambient air temp was in the high 90's too so that wasn't helping. Timing was at 11 degrees and fuel is e85. Boost was 18, tapering back to 16 by the top of third. Not sure if I need a bigger wastegate spring again or the turbo just isn't going to make more.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Man I love this car!

Those temps seem nutty! What IAT sensor are you using? I didn't think the GM IAT sensors commonly used were accurate at higher temps anyway, so it may not have actually been that high? FWIW I wouldn't run much over 225 IAT even with E85.

Sounds like that turbo was out of steam and just pushing hot air to me. The successful "hot air" cars are usually "over turbo'd". That way they can move tons of air at lower pressures and the IAT's stay in check. I'd throw on a cheapo IC and or METH injection if you plan to keep the gt45. Tossing on another injector using E85 won't help you anymore than richening up your current tune would. Shoot for 10.8-11.0 AFR's running a hot air setup and pay close attention to the plugs if/when you lean it out. Peak power tuning window on E85 is pretty big, no reason to be on the lean side of it like you were.

Running a larger turbo or tossing on another gt45 would be another good option if you want more power. Even with my cheap china $120 IC My inlet temps don't go over 180 @ 25lbs. Thats starting out heat soaked at 120* on the line. (80* ambient)

Cheap ways to get it to launch harder would be to beef up the brakes so you can hold more boost. Simply extending the length of the brake pedal can give you a ton more holding power on the line. I have also wired in a vacuum pump to the brake booster that you turn on before a launch. (heavy duty 12v tire pump) These two things would allow 30+lbs of boost to be made on the OEM brake setup on an AWD eagle talon. 1.31 60' on stock junk!

Sounds like you have the wrong converter to for a foot brake car and it's not coupling down low. T-brake would do wonders, so would a custom spec'd converter. (all big money unfortunately)

3300 is borderline too heavy for a stock case (aka cheap) glide/Tbrake setup. Also will be even harder to launch with a 1.76 first gear on a glide IMO.

denmah

iTrader: (2)

ive never built a reliable Non IC setup, even a small air to water setup in there would rock house

but great power! the gt45 is the best turbo for the money period we have consistently made over 600 with it on 4.8 to 6.0's

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Yeah this turbo is a beast for sure. I'm torn on the intercooler, I feel the same way but then I see people making crazy power without one. If I did an air to air I'm almost certain i would need to upgrade my radiator, which means more money. I would like to put an air to water under the dash with an icebox in the trunk but i don't like the idea of it not being ready for action anytime, anywhere.

You really dont' think a injector pre throttle body would cool the intake temps down? I know I have seen some big power non IC cars with multiple injectors in the charge pipe. That brake pedad extension is amazing LOL I'm going to try some of your tactics before I send the converter back to get loosened up. I really have s475 fever now, I think you're right that the non IC guys mostly have huge compressors that probably don't boil the air like my 68. Gotta try and find a deal on a used one.

Ron_Stoppable

iTrader: (1)

Im running the same setup as you except with a 5.3. Im running non intercooled on e85 with a 625ml snow performance meth nozzle

Turbo D

iTrader: (3)

Can you pull timing with a hobbs switch once you hit 8lbs? that would be the easiest way to get it to hold while foot braking.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

A good shrouded fan will go a long way. I run the 2 speed taurus fan. With basically a half radiator. (14x14 core) . It's covered by my IC completely. Easily cools the car even on 100* days with the fan on high. I have zero ducting and could improve on my setup a ton if it needed it.

As far as A2W setups go you don't need to have ice in them for them to work well. Just have the pump setup on a boost switch. Even if your water is 100* think how much cooler that is than your 300+degree inlet temps.

Most aux inj. setups inject meth and/or water. This gives you additional knock suppression over E85 alone. Spraying more of the same fuel pre-TB VS at the injector will do very little IMO. Always better to use your primary injectors if you can. Ensures equal fuel distribution and allows the fuel to maximize CC cooling. When any aux inj hits an air charge hot enough, it flashes. Doing this pre CC wastes alot of energy cooling off the cold side parts. That is all energy that would have been better spent injected as close to the CC as possible. So the idea of spraying E85 pre TB VS at the injector make no sense to me. Also the meth/water kits are using serious pressure to atomize the mixture. (My pump uses 300psi) Using a standard fuel injector and pressure does a poor job of atomizing the mixture in comparison.

You may have been fine with a much richer AFR and even less timing. From a cost VS performance stand point, I see no reason not to run simple water/meth kit. I'd spray the majority as close to the CC as possible. Then add additional small nozzles for the smaller benefits of charge cooling.

As far as turbo choice, the on3 guys just came up with a new $390 turbo that looks promising. It's a 78mm compressor mated to a 75mm exh wheel. Would be right up your alley. Wouldn't take up as much space as an S400 based charger either.

55superbeetle

iTrader: (5)

Got it all fixed up. Only had one piston melt down, definitely going to have my home decapped injectors flowed before I put the screws back to it. It carved a pretty good gouge in the cylinder wall so I had to have the one hole sleeved to get it back to standard. I spent around 500 bucks fixing it all, bearings, gaskets, machine work, balancing, even with some damn good friend hookups. Next time I'm just going to hold out for a running gen 4 motor. Still debating on what path to take next to make some more power safely but just glad it's running again for now. Leaning towards a s475 and a2w intercooler, gonna have to bust *** on some side jobs to pay for it first though.




All fixed




Victory burnout!

randomninels1nova

Wow man! Nice carnage lol glad you got it back up and going again. What machine shop did you take it to?