NicD

iTrader: (7)

LOL, it was taken with the same two pressure gauges back to back with no changes other than the intercooler. Like I said, not as scientific as a leaf blower test.

HexenLord

His graph is a generalization. He doesn't indicate exact turbulator densities, only shows the effect that low and high density turbulators have on an intercoolers flow. For all we know the graph could be nearly zero density on one end and 50% density on the other.

Besides, I would trust the opinion of someone who manufactures thousands of different types of some of the highest quality intercoolers on the market.

I never said horizontal wasn't a poor choice. No matter how you do the math, a typical horizontal has worse flow than a vertical.

Btw, here's some math for you.

A typical bar and plate intercooler has a 40% flow rate across the flow area. So a 3" thick horizontal flow intercooler thats 12 inches tall would have (3x12)x.4=14.4 square inches of flow area. Since a 3" x 12" horizontal is pretty much a worst case scenario I'd have to agree its not enough flow. A 4.5" thick x 12" horizontal has (4.5x12)x.4=21.6 square inches.

For comparison, a 4" inlet or outlet pipe has (2x2)x3.14=12.56 square inches of low.

Most large verticals, even ebay specials, have 25+ square inches of flow area. It is indeed hard for any horizontal to keep up with a vertical in terms of flow.

But like I was saying before, if the core is large enough to outflow your setup, it really isn't going to matter whether its horizontal or vertical, or how much more you increase the flow area, it isn't going to have much effect. If your core outflows your setup, you could double the size of it and it would only gain a few % efficiency.

I understand your argument for vertical vs horizontal, but if the horizontal is still big enough to give you more than enough flow, switching to a vertical will have little effect. This is the argument NicD has been trying to make.

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Its fine. You can make fun. My vid is objectional with no bias... all I hear from you is hearsay

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

You obviously realize you cannot compare the flow area of a pipe to that of a core.

Measure the actual cores once... not a generalization

Both the CX core and treastone had roughly a .23" charge row height. 16 rows. Do the math


Yes exactly, you would trust the opinion of someone who builds many different high quality cores

So look at the table again. I wasn't eluding to the table about tubulator density. I was for flow area vs flow volume

In his expert opinion as you just stated. A 370" motor needs in the area of 30 square inches flow area to satisfy the flow


Agree?







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onfire

iTrader: (17)

The end tank design in the horizontal flow IC in the vid is horrible. Massive turbulent flow at the core.

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Treastone was same way

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Well it is pretty funny thinking that your leaf blower video means anything at all. At least my dual gauges and intake air temp sensor show something to backup what I'm saying. I have nothing to benefit what so ever by making false claims, I don't sell intercoolers. I'm just sharing data so sorry I didn't make a video showing the differences. Besides most research that I do now a days is only shared between the 5 companies I contract in to and direct customers. I couldn't care less what you believe but when you are making claims that it's worthless to go bigger on a horizontal flow intercooler and I have data that says otherwise, well...

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Where is the data again?

You are right the blower vid shows nothing

Start blocking the blower off with your hand and notice what happens... it isn't rocket science

Run that blower through my complete new setup and rpm still doesn't budge






Be sure to let corky know he better get shig straight

NicD

iTrader: (7)

I could take screencaps of the log files showing the climb in intake air temp and I don't have pictures of the handwritten notes from back when I did this test as a direct back to back. Even if I did you could just say that I made it up and posted up random graphs and notes to suit what I am saying.

I have an idea, next time you get a customer that comes in with a 3" ebay core intercooler you can do your own back to back testing when you switch it out to a larger core IC and then you will have some "data" for yourself to share. Until then feel free to continue to speculate while I will just share my testing results that have already been done on this exact subject.

Would you feel better if I took a picture of the ebay core 3" along with the treadstone sitting in my garage currently?

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

And what would of been the results had you went go a vertical flow Ic of the same size??

If he is going through the work to change it why not persue something closer to ideal?

Yes let's see a picture of the old IC. Down the through the charge tubes

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Probably not much of a difference seeing as how the newer larger one only had 1 psi drop and the charge temps were now VERY low compared to before. This rivals my nice PT900 a/w on the Camaro. The work involved was as easy as removing the old one and putting in the new one since it was the same configuration and it was relatively cheap. I would have had to change all of the charge piping to fit a vertical flow intercooler not to mention it wouldn't fit well in the space that was available. I'm not saying that a vertical core isn't superior, just that it's really not that big of a deal in this situation at 800 to the tires.

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Yes exactly..... that is one of the horrible extruded tube cores I mentioned....

I would hope you saw a vast improvement over that

My buddy has a 1000hp 370/s480 and he was seeing 4-5psi of drop in his car at 22psi

With a CX 4" bar n plate core. Looks identical in build to the treastone and tubulator design minus the treastone having better end tanks. Nothing like a Garrett design

Swapped to a a2w and you can quests what the results where

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Do you want me to provide pics of the CX core next to the treastone?

onfire

iTrader: (17)

Sure.

The endtanks on the atw look very good.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

LOL you are acting like I don't know what the difference was between the cores. The op said he has a cheap ebay 3" core intercooler which is exactly what mine was and I shared good data doing the exact swap he is talking about doing. There are most definitely good improvements to be had by doing the simple swap to a better thicker core IC without changing to a vertical flow intercooler and changing the associated charge piping. I know I've mentioned this before but I know what a good a2w setup is capable of, I have one on my Camaro and it's really nice. Beyond that I think I'm done bothering with this pissing match as I've given the OP the information from when I did exactly what he is asking about doing.

SPRAYED 01

iTrader: (22)

I have a a 4 inch not 3.

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

What 4" sprayed? Tube and fin like what nicd used to have or a CX bar n plate?

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

I am assuming he has 4" CX core. Not the type you had, I didn't realize people played money for that

If he has a CX type 4" core and you think going to the 4.5" treastone will do ****. You are nuts....

ayousef

CFM or Cubic feet per minute is a time unit measure of airflow, airflow is what generates horsepower SO you cannot be flowing 400CFM at 1000hp on a small motor and 1000CFM at 1000hp on a bigger motor.

All else compensated for the different motors, to make a 1000HP you will have to flow "almost" the same amount of CFM, regardless what the engine size is.

rotary1307cc

iTrader: (5)

Are you ******* retarded?

And wonder why tech has such horrible advice given

NicD is not an idiot we are having a discussion, you are an idiot although

Ponder your dumbass post for a moment


Do you realize an engine is a positive displacement pump?

Flow volume is relatively fixed and tied to the motors, displacement, rpm, VE.

Ever heard of mass flow?

The mass flow varies through the charge pipes with different boost levels..... the flow volume does not

Air flow volume into the turbos will be similar between the two 1khp motors.... air flow volume through the charge pipes/intercooeler... ahhhhh no



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