Set me straight on pump gas
#61
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E85 is 105 octane give or take a little depending on mixture. However, the cooling characteristics of the fuel make it so it acts like 112 octane.
FWIW- I dont understand the mpg complaints. I average right at 20-22mpgs! In my big block 15 was the ****!
FWIW- I dont understand the mpg complaints. I average right at 20-22mpgs! In my big block 15 was the ****!
#62
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The Renewable Fuels Foundation states in its Changes in Gasoline IV manual, "There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [12]
#63
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I did alittle experiment a couple of years ago when they first started adding ethanol into regular gas. what they are claiming to be about 10% ethanol. I put it in a glass container and let it sit for a couple of days untouched. when I came back to look at it I discovered something rather discouraging, and potentially the reason why they have added ethanol. anyone who has messed with gas before the last 3-4 years knows that when water is in gas, it clearly separates like a "bubble" and will not mix in. what I found in the new ethanol added gas is that it separated into 3 very clearly visible layers. water gas and ethanol. what was disturbing is that yes, there was about 10% of the volume was ethanol, but there was nearly double the amount of water. the water is able to mix with the ethanol, which will then mix in with the gas. so basically, what it has come down to is they have figured out a way to water down gasoline and not be noticeable. this is largely responsible for the inconsistent mixtures of both e85 and regular gas and has DRAMATICALLY shortened the storage life of fuel. it is able to absorb moisture out of the air, which further dilutes it, and then the ethanol begin to break down as more water is introduced. basically leaving you with heavily watered down gas
don't believe me? try for yourself. get some gas from your local pump, put it in a glass container and let it sit for about 2 days undisturbed. you will see it separate out. then if you move it or shake it slightly, it will all mix back in together.
also another interesting fact, go to your local parts store and look for the products that are supposed to remove water from your fuel system. then read their ingredients. you guessed it, pure ethanol.
now maybe some of you will see why I am so against the stuff
don't believe me? try for yourself. get some gas from your local pump, put it in a glass container and let it sit for about 2 days undisturbed. you will see it separate out. then if you move it or shake it slightly, it will all mix back in together.
also another interesting fact, go to your local parts store and look for the products that are supposed to remove water from your fuel system. then read their ingredients. you guessed it, pure ethanol.
now maybe some of you will see why I am so against the stuff
#64
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no, he bought stuff that was "compatible", as were the $700 injectors that corroded up and were ruined by it in a months time. I won't mention the shops name, but it is a VERY reputable shop that did his tuning, and I believe they may even be a sponsor here.
my argument with it is:
people say you need about 20% more fuel system capability with e85 to run your same numbers because it takes more of the fuel to make the same power. why not upgrade your fuel system to handle that much more fuel and run pump gas? then how much power will you be making? I understand you can get more aggressive with timing, and that's cool and all, but what if you are putting more fuel to it and can just turn the boost up some to compensate? even if you have to pull more timing, you will still make more power than you were before
my argument with it is:
people say you need about 20% more fuel system capability with e85 to run your same numbers because it takes more of the fuel to make the same power. why not upgrade your fuel system to handle that much more fuel and run pump gas? then how much power will you be making? I understand you can get more aggressive with timing, and that's cool and all, but what if you are putting more fuel to it and can just turn the boost up some to compensate? even if you have to pull more timing, you will still make more power than you were before
#65
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I did alittle experiment a couple of years ago when they first started adding ethanol into regular gas. what they are claiming to be about 10% ethanol. I put it in a glass container and let it sit for a couple of days untouched. when I came back to look at it I discovered something rather discouraging, and potentially the reason why they have added ethanol. anyone who has messed with gas before the last 3-4 years knows that when water is in gas, it clearly separates like a "bubble" and will not mix in. what I found in the new ethanol added gas is that it separated into 3 very clearly visible layers. water gas and ethanol. what was disturbing is that yes, there was about 10% of the volume was ethanol, but there was nearly double the amount of water. the water is able to mix with the ethanol, which will then mix in with the gas. so basically, what it has come down to is they have figured out a way to water down gasoline and not be noticeable. this is largely responsible for the inconsistent mixtures of both e85 and regular gas and has DRAMATICALLY shortened the storage life of fuel. it is able to absorb moisture out of the air, which further dilutes it, and then the ethanol begin to break down as more water is introduced. basically leaving you with heavily watered down gas
don't believe me? try for yourself. get some gas from your local pump, put it in a glass container and let it sit for about 2 days undisturbed. you will see it separate out. then if you move it or shake it slightly, it will all mix back in together.
also another interesting fact, go to your local parts store and look for the products that are supposed to remove water from your fuel system. then read their ingredients. you guessed it, pure ethanol.
now maybe some of you will see why I am so against the stuff
don't believe me? try for yourself. get some gas from your local pump, put it in a glass container and let it sit for about 2 days undisturbed. you will see it separate out. then if you move it or shake it slightly, it will all mix back in together.
also another interesting fact, go to your local parts store and look for the products that are supposed to remove water from your fuel system. then read their ingredients. you guessed it, pure ethanol.
now maybe some of you will see why I am so against the stuff
#67
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I built mine knowing that the closest place that sells e85 is 30miles away. So since I knew I wasn't going that route I just figured use 93 with meth kit.
So if you know you will have a hard time getting e85 or whatever just build your setup for pump and meth.
I see some guys are against. Water/meth injection. Why is that?
Last edited by red 95 t/a; 05-16-2013 at 02:49 PM.
#70
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what about it is incorrect? tell me how it works then since there is so much other "factual" info in this thread? because all the research I have done has said exactly this, and the friends I have who run it who have been trying to talk me into it have said how it work, so lets hear your opinion Mr. Expert
as for the HEET comment, you might want to do some research before making that statement. that particular brand uses higher methanol content. most other brands are isopropyl or ethanol based
and I live in Florida. most of our gas is terrible.
as for the HEET comment, you might want to do some research before making that statement. that particular brand uses higher methanol content. most other brands are isopropyl or ethanol based
and I live in Florida. most of our gas is terrible.
#71
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here, Martin. now tell me where my post was misinformative
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...5/viewall.html
and since you like to try to quote this site as a reference alot, go over here and argue with these guys:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=422868
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...5/viewall.html
and since you like to try to quote this site as a reference alot, go over here and argue with these guys:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=422868
#72
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here, Martin. now tell me where my post was misinformative
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...5/viewall.html
and since you like to try to quote this site as a reference alot, go over here and argue with these guys:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=422868
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...5/viewall.html
and since you like to try to quote this site as a reference alot, go over here and argue with these guys:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=422868
You can't compare it to gasoline. You have to compare it to race fuel. Race fuel such as Q16 or methanol is going to be anywhere from $7-9 per gallon and E85 is less than $3 in my area. I have a cheap tester and right now it is 90% at our pumps. I have a catch can I just drain the catch can every few days. It takes a couple minutes. I also fire my car up and let it get very hot before I drive it the first time for the day. This burns up all the condensation in the valve covers, etc... You can tune it to run pretty damn lean at part throttle and cruising and this allows you to get really good fuel mileage.
The best thing is if you want to tune yourself. I am still very new to this and have pushed the limits of these junk yard engines trying to learn how to tune. I basically use them as sacrifices. lol My tune is not really all that safe but the E85 definitely gives you more room for error. More and more E85 pumps will go up. It is all what you want to do. It is everywhere here so I use it. If it wasn't then I would use the 93 and meth.
#73
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#76
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this thread has brought to light just how many people have forgotten the basic principals of how power is made
#77
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so you're telling me that putting more fuel through the engine, at higher boost to compensate, WILL NOT yield higher power numbers than being able to run a couple more degrees of timing? ummm... no. especially considering this is what the e85 is doing, but you are having to run a significant more amount of it
this thread has brought to light just how many people have forgotten the basic principals of how power is made
this thread has brought to light just how many people have forgotten the basic principals of how power is made
And no, it is not what E85 is doing. Clearly you have no clue about any principals including how power is made !
#78
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What is this guy smoking? I want some of it...Nic I agree completely. Nic, do you work at a shop? You should hear some of the things I hear on a daily basis....not just here on the internet.
It is not even worth my time to argue with this guy "badhombre". I can't even follow his thought process let alone comprehend half of his sentence structure. Proper punctuation, spelling and grammar would allow you to come off as at least maybe having half a clue as to what you're talking about.
It is not even worth my time to argue with this guy "badhombre". I can't even follow his thought process let alone comprehend half of his sentence structure. Proper punctuation, spelling and grammar would allow you to come off as at least maybe having half a clue as to what you're talking about.
#79
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Badhombre, trust me you are completely wrong. I understand where you thought process comes in, its obvious you are a beginner at this. And that's ok, but one day you will look back at this thread and say "man i can't believe that's what I thought." I was there before I went to tech school on alot of things.
#80
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Ok then "gurus" then tell me why the 2 links I posted say the same thing I am saying? And Martin as for the grammar and sentence structure comment, you must have attended the same english class as you did automotive. You seemed to have been absent on some crucial days. But by god you were there on cam day. Might wanna take some refresher courses.
I did go to "tech school" and grew up in my dad's shop building racecars, and my first job was in an engine building shop, which I still deal with. I like how everyone keeps coming in here saying "No, you're wrong. that's not how it works". well I am still waiting for one of you to kindly explain to us all how it does work then because right now all the information that is out there is against your argument. Again, sounds familiar doesn't it Mr. Smallwood? BTW have you made that call to SAM yet? No, instead of using facts and information, you resort to personal attacks. AGAIN. So, seeing as the title of the thread is "Set me straight on pump gas" why don't you set us straight on e85? since everyone I know who runs it, the guys on yellowbullet, popular hotrodding and all the other resources I found, obviously have it all wrong.
I did go to "tech school" and grew up in my dad's shop building racecars, and my first job was in an engine building shop, which I still deal with. I like how everyone keeps coming in here saying "No, you're wrong. that's not how it works". well I am still waiting for one of you to kindly explain to us all how it does work then because right now all the information that is out there is against your argument. Again, sounds familiar doesn't it Mr. Smallwood? BTW have you made that call to SAM yet? No, instead of using facts and information, you resort to personal attacks. AGAIN. So, seeing as the title of the thread is "Set me straight on pump gas" why don't you set us straight on e85? since everyone I know who runs it, the guys on yellowbullet, popular hotrodding and all the other resources I found, obviously have it all wrong.