Anchor

Don't some standard truck ls ecu's have the flex fuel option?

What about haltech? They seem to have more options than both the holley and the proefi.

FirebirdSS

iTrader: (7)

In the newer PCM camaros, vettes, trucks, etc., you can wire in sensors for e85 and it will adjust fuel. Still won't have the safety factor of a pro efi.

Anchor

Oh ok. I'm using one of those ecu's with AEM's wideband failsafe.

73turbo53

Holley all the way, and exactly for the reason above. Almost anyone can wire this thing up, setup up a base tune, drive it for a day, a go racing the next. NO ONE WILL TUNE YOUR CAR BETTER THAN YOU so buy a system that you can tune.

Toxic-Evo

iTrader: (2)

what i can be up an running with the holly for 2600????? **** i guess i did it wrong.

with tune i have right around 3500 in my pro efi set up. dealer installed. 128. all the sensors i need tuned. flex fuel sensor. back pressure. fuel pressure. iboost switch.

ill stick with it.... Jason konws what he is doing when he built the Pro

Toxic-Evo

iTrader: (2)

they had to add a few feature sensors into my pro ECU... but from factory to Pro it was PLUG AND PLAY.

Toxic-Evo

iTrader: (2)

when i drop 15K on a motor. and another 10-12 on a turbo system.... i think i will let a professonal do it.

no one will break your motor faster than a shitty tuner.

dont get me wrong the "tune yourself" is cool. but it doesnt win races.... people get paid big bucks to travel and tune with a race team.

2muchboostNY

iTrader: (8)

Just stumbled upon this thread and have only dealt with ProEfi off the list you mentioned. I can tell you that I live near one of the top Supra shops in the north east. I have personally seen what a ProEfi 128 unit can do and its incredible for the price. The flex fuel, the AI, the failsafe options, the i-boost configuration, the anti-lag.....its really the best bang for the buck that I have witnessed but again having no knowledge of Holleys units. I have personally seen the 128 unit save 2 motors due to failsafe and knock sensing technology. It is def worth it to look into these units and I am very sad that I had to sell mine with my 2JZ setup as i was looking forward to what my car would have done with it. My buddies 900+rwhp setup idles like stock and its awesome watching him go from E85 to 93 pump (or any combo for that matter) and seeing the computer self adjust to those parameters. A few guys there switch from top dollar MOTEC units to the 128 units because of the price compared to features....not because the MOTEC units were any less capable.

GL on your decision.

73turbo53

100% true a bad tuner can wreck a setup quickly, and I have seen plenty of motors trashed by "the flavor of the month best tuner in the country" stuff. I don't know how fast the OP is planning on going but there are plenty of guys that have way less than 10k in there setups , running holley efi, tuning it themselves, running in the 8's, and winning races every weekend. The whole reason the holley stuff is becoming so popular is you don't have to be a millionaire/tuning genius for YOU to make your budget street/strip are fly down the track and drive nice on the street.

skinnies

iTrader: (33)

After seeing a local supra guy send his car to one of the best shops in the country for the pro efi, then getting big dyno numbers, getting it back, and having issues with it even doing a burnout, nitrous not working right, car backfiring and all kinds of issues I'd say whatever someone decides on they need to know how to use the system. The owner of the car not knowing pro efi enough to do anything to fix it so now he has to send his car back 10+ hrs away to get it fixed.

I may be wrong, but holley seems to have a much bigger following and a lot of help out there(yb for example, lots of questions asked/answered), plus holley tech, and others. I'm happy with my holley efi setup and recommend it to someone who is new at tuning also, I think the average person could catch on and learn it fairly quickly.

2muchboostNY

iTrader: (8)

Agreed that the tuner knowledge is key. "Alpha" is a reputable tuner in the supra world and is the only tuner that the local shop uses. Granted its not cheap but the guy seems to have a handle on the ProEfi. Again, not saying anything against Holley as I am way too knew to have any experience with it...also I have almost no tuning knowledge. Just observation.

JAX04

iTrader: (17)

This thread is full of win...

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

Never said you did it wrong......
sounds like you got a pretty good deal overall...
and getting a base tune in it from a "reputable" tuner is a definite plus...




thats good to know for in the future when I am talking to somebody about the system if they are asking me if I know anything about it

agreed....bad tuner = bad results
but...tune yourself...does win races if you know what you are doing...lots of guys doing it themselves in multiple race classes winning it by themselves(with maybe the help of their wife/brother/cousin/close friend...LOL)

the definition of tune it yourself is also a vague description...
many guys just want a grudge car to go down the track and have fun...

I'm a good example of that.... I'm not racing hardcore... I'm just getting down the track to have fun.......but... I have been a tuner for somebody who did win some races and made some money



perfect example of why to go with one system over another..
both systems are very capable of making big power and doing great things....
but if the user has a problem, he needs to know how to use it to troubleshoot or fix the problem...
that guy couldnt go into his own PRO EFI unit to fix the issue....whether it was lack of knowledge, or no computer smarts to know how to connect...no way of knowing without asking him...
but if its a complex structure that takes a bunch of training to use, its going to be a hard sell to the end user

I recently looked at a systems made for mustangs.....PRO-M....all I can say is...the software for it is a piece of junk...things were labeled in engineering tuner jargon...which made no sense to the guy using it....
he was talked into the system by a guy that just wanted the sale...made it look good, showed him a few videos....it was definitely not user friendly to a non technical tuner...
just making a simple fueling correction was a pain in the ***.

I've been tuning for a long time and have worked with a lot of different systems that are out there at one point or another...and it was even hard for me to figure out the PRO-M
but of course, the videos online made it sound simple.
thankfully, I was able to get the guys sorted out








I agree full that many systems are capable of being a winning combo....
its going to all come down to customer support for most people...especially if they dont have much tuning knowledge

if you know how to tune, then the support side is just for basic wiring and troubleshooting.







I have no idea how the PRO EFI customer support is as I've never personally had to call them or email them...

but I know for a fact the Holley support is top notch..and its the reason a lot of people have switched from other EFI systems to a Holley.

I am certainly not trying to talk anybody out of the PRO EFI.. it seems like a very capable system...
but I'm definitely one to say you should seriously consider the Holley Avenger/HP/Dominator stuff...

I have personally seen a Holley system save a $30,000 motor...it was the selling point for me when I saw it happen...

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I just looked at the PRO EFI software and Data logger....
I can honestly say...lots of options...but man it needs some design improvement....

that ranks up there with some of the lower end of the spectrum on setup and layout...
lots of terms that would confuse somebody who has never looked at any kind of ECU file...

getting a base tune in your car would be nearly impossible to do from scratch...and you certainly could not just make up values and have it work.

the Data logging needs some serious improvement as well...its fairly worthless for any kind of real time tuning...just not the right visual info in the right spots to make it quick and useful.


I do like a lot of the features....but man, I would not want to have to be the guy tuning on it...


not saying its bad.......it just needs a lot of work to be up with my favorites.

2muchboostNY

iTrader: (8)

I can say that every Pro Efi tuned car I have seen has been a several hour ordeal. My buddies setup was right around 6.5 hours worth of dyno and tune time which added up to a nice bill. Once it was running it was awesome but it was pretty much a whole day endeavor. I have not met anybody besides the shop owner that tunes (even base tunes) their own Efi 128. Based on the owners feedback the customer support from the distributor and manufacturer are great but not for the feint of heart or for someone with little tuning knowledge.

You guys def have me interested in learning about the Holley. I will do some research when i get some down time from work. Seems like most of you really like the software and support.

smokin03

So it seems that the holley is the ticket....now which one ....dominator , avenger , etc. What's the difference.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

the avenger is a complete system with an intakeand a fuel pump made for SBC/SBF..but uses the same ECU as the HP
the avenger was basically designed for the old school guy who doesnt know jack about tuning and just wants to plug and play....the little hand held controller that comes with the avenger asks a few questions... and you turn the key and drive and dont worry about it.


the HP and Dominator are the same ECU and processor....with a few minor differences..

The main differences are:
the Dominator has 2 WB02's instead of Just 1 on the HP
Dominator can use Drive by wire
Dominator has trans control for a 4l80/4l60 (and potentially more in the future)
Dominator has WAY more Inputs and Outputs(40+ of each if I recall correctly.) HP only has 4 extra inputs and 4 extra outputs.
4 way calibration selector available on dominator (up to 4 separate tunes selectable by a switch)

and because of these things, the Dominator has more connectors on it and is about physically twice as long as the HP units

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

yeah... the fact that you cant plug it in, turn it on, and go drive immediately makes the PRO EFI look like its not for the normal user...
and the fact that there arent many people who tune it themselves, means that it isnt very user friendly




the Holley stuff was designed in a way that you can literally just plug the thing in, turn the key, and go drive...and it will run with minimal setup.

and a lot of people install a holley system with no help from anybody else
and a lot of people do their own tuning with the holley with great results.

stevieturbo

I sort of have to disagree with that with regards ProEFI.

What is a normal user ? If it is someone with no knowledge of such things...then normal would be to buy from dealer and have them install and tune. So they dont need to know.
And once that initial setup is done, it should never need looked at again.
And it may pay to have this done by someone competent, to ensure everything is in order, especially if the ecu is capable of doing lots of things.

As for people tuning themselves. That can be dodgy ground too, especially with a versatile system.
And I say that over complicated, because often a more versatile system will appear more complicated, but that's simply because it does so much.
Ive never used ProEFI, although I did glance at the site. Cant say I like their overly graphical tuning interface....baffles me why so many companies do this. Maybe it's to try and appeal to a wider audience, rather than a tuner specific one. I'd rather have a simple and clear easy to navigate interface, than one with stupid big dials and gauges taking up half the screen !

Now the Holley does seem simple, but in some respects overly so, and feels like some important stuff is missing because of that Although again I havent tuned with it, only viewed it offline. But it does seem they have went out of their way to make most stuff easy. Again, this has to be aimed at no-experience people, rather than actual tuners.
Could be deemed good or bad really.

The Holley log viewing interface also needs huge work to improve it. A single page of graphs is very poor, and makes working through logs slow and tedious.

ProEFI is supposed to offer very good engine safeties, and knock control...does Holley offer stuff like that ?

After recently using some of the Syvecs stuff....I now see this as a vital part of any setup. Oil pressure, fuel pressure, coolant temp, AFR's, knock, crankcase pressure, coolant system pressure etc etc. All/any can either invoke a limp mode, or full engine shutdown as desired if things start to go astray.
And it will do it far faster than any driver ever will. It may seem like overkill...but if the option is there, it seems mental not to make use of it, especially if it could save thousands on expensive engine repairs
I would look for those options !

But if I had to choose between ProEFI or Holley, on one aspect alone I'd probably buy the Holley..and that's internal logging. I simply wouldnt consider the base Holley, only the Dominator for that reason alone.

No matter who tunes and drives it, logging is a HUGE tool to have and will also assist with remote assistance should you require it
That requires an extra device with ProEFI, so that needs factored in with costs to compare like for like. Although the logger itself does seem to offer a lot. No idea what their log viewing software is like though.

I just find it mental that any company would build a top level ecu, and have no internal logging.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

well... all of the Holley EFI pieces (Avenger,HP,Dominator) have 2gb of internal logging..

and they do have a safety if you set them up...its not as straight forward as it should be..
you actually have to add boost control to get the safety... and then you can set up a safety shut off in the I/O section to trigger the Boost safety....(even though you arent really using the boost setup for anything else.

I've actually had safetys set up for as long as I've owned it just using a rev limiter to put the car in a limp mode if theres an issue and to turn on a warning light...even before they offered boost control.

and you can make it trigger from any value of any sensor or input or output...
its just not as straight forward as most people would like.

honestly..it is the one thing that is really lacking..





the Holley stuff also offers knock control.....1 wire or 2 wire knock sensors
and it works well.










the offline log viewing does need work...
but online is much much better

the log viewing in the lines format is very standard for most data loggers..
but there is an overlay method you can do with the Holley and you can follow it thru the tune...which makes it very fast as you have a reference in the visual side you can follow as well.. it doesnt need as much work you you think it does, yes there are things that could be improved on logging... but its actually quite good overall because of the overlay feature.

people love the datalogging of a racepak...holley follows right along with what a racepak does.now they just need to add the ability to sync video to the Holley log as well and life would be grand.