Holley Dominator EFI, OR, PRO EFI
11-20-2013, 04:48 PM
#102
9 Second Club
Thousands of people around the world now install aftermarket ecu's as piggybacks, due to the complexity of the car's computers and the fact they control so much more than the engine.
There is nothing more difficult about doing a full wire in install, than doing a piggyback install.
11-20-2013, 05:02 PM
#103
That makes no sense.
Thousands of people around the world now install aftermarket ecu's as piggybacks, due to the complexity of the car's computers and the fact they control so much more than the engine.
There is nothing more difficult about doing a full wire in install, than doing a piggyback install.
Thousands of people around the world now install aftermarket ecu's as piggybacks, due to the complexity of the car's computers and the fact they control so much more than the engine.
There is nothing more difficult about doing a full wire in install, than doing a piggyback install.
11-20-2013, 05:17 PM
#104
9 Second Club
Again, there is absolutely no reason that I can see that it cannot be piggybacked, same as any ecu.
All voltage related sensors are fine to pair up, the likes of 2 wire resistive cannot be paired up, and you would need dedicated sensors for the new ecu.
But largely this is only coolant and air temp, so not a problem to sort.
Then you'd just ditch actuator control from the main ecu and have the Holley do this.
ie injectors, coils and any other devices you wanted controlled by the new ecu.
The factory ecu will of course register some faults and complain, but it would/should still perform the stuff it's supposed to do like operate the dash.
It's no different to what some guys are doing and have done with Megasquirt or Microsquirt
All voltage related sensors are fine to pair up, the likes of 2 wire resistive cannot be paired up, and you would need dedicated sensors for the new ecu.
But largely this is only coolant and air temp, so not a problem to sort.
Then you'd just ditch actuator control from the main ecu and have the Holley do this.
ie injectors, coils and any other devices you wanted controlled by the new ecu.
The factory ecu will of course register some faults and complain, but it would/should still perform the stuff it's supposed to do like operate the dash.
It's no different to what some guys are doing and have done with Megasquirt or Microsquirt
11-20-2013, 06:43 PM
#105
Again, there is absolutely no reason that I can see that it cannot be piggybacked, same as any ecu.
All voltage related sensors are fine to pair up, the likes of 2 wire resistive cannot be paired up, and you would need dedicated sensors for the new ecu.
But largely this is only coolant and air temp, so not a problem to sort.
Then you'd just ditch actuator control from the main ecu and have the Holley do this.
ie injectors, coils and any other devices you wanted controlled by the new ecu.
The factory ecu will of course register some faults and complain, but it would/should still perform the stuff it's supposed to do like operate the dash.
It's no different to what some guys are doing and have done with Megasquirt or Microsquirt
All voltage related sensors are fine to pair up, the likes of 2 wire resistive cannot be paired up, and you would need dedicated sensors for the new ecu.
But largely this is only coolant and air temp, so not a problem to sort.
Then you'd just ditch actuator control from the main ecu and have the Holley do this.
ie injectors, coils and any other devices you wanted controlled by the new ecu.
The factory ecu will of course register some faults and complain, but it would/should still perform the stuff it's supposed to do like operate the dash.
It's no different to what some guys are doing and have done with Megasquirt or Microsquirt
11-20-2013, 08:00 PM
#106
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The price of a expander box and dual wideband upgrade is more than the price of a holley dominator ecu. Plus I could move away from using my AMS1000 and keep it all in one box.
11-20-2013, 09:19 PM
#107
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Damn. The ONLY thing that's keeping me from upgrading to the holley is no flex fuel sensors/setup. I want to be able to just fill up with drum e85, or pump e85 or 98 pump fuel and not have to switch tunes & drain tanks.
Also, will my dakota digital dash work with the holley dominator ecu?
Also, will my dakota digital dash work with the holley dominator ecu?
Last edited by Anchor; 11-20-2013 at 09:25 PM.
11-21-2013, 01:37 AM
#108
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I personally like the Haltech stuff better than any that are out. Much more sophisticated feel but def not for the novice.
I have not messed with a ProEFI yet but have thumbed through the software and I must say I like the layout MUCH better than Holley. Holley, to me, seems like a glorified FAST XFI or BS3 with modern resolution and colors. The graphing and maneuvering keys are just cumbersome especially if you are remotely used to something like HPTuners. No smoothing of tables other than Interpolate. Really the stock ECM/PCM stuff with EFILive and HPTuners spoils you because from an GUI standpoint none of the front runners in standalones come close IMO.
If you are a novice and don't know much on tuning the learning function is cool on the Holley on certain setups however sucks on something fairly radical like a 13:1 440 LSXDR headed solid roller race car. The auto learn will kill some plugs at idle lol. Ask me how I know. I personally don't want/need a self learning function.
I have not messed with a ProEFI yet but have thumbed through the software and I must say I like the layout MUCH better than Holley. Holley, to me, seems like a glorified FAST XFI or BS3 with modern resolution and colors. The graphing and maneuvering keys are just cumbersome especially if you are remotely used to something like HPTuners. No smoothing of tables other than Interpolate. Really the stock ECM/PCM stuff with EFILive and HPTuners spoils you because from an GUI standpoint none of the front runners in standalones come close IMO.
If you are a novice and don't know much on tuning the learning function is cool on the Holley on certain setups however sucks on something fairly radical like a 13:1 440 LSXDR headed solid roller race car. The auto learn will kill some plugs at idle lol. Ask me how I know. I personally don't want/need a self learning function.
11-21-2013, 02:01 AM
#109
9 Second Club
That is so far from the truth.
In many ways, lots of users in the US is years behind utilising modern standalone ecu's on many platforms. So I'm sure it will happen given time.
As for closed loop....it will only do harm or be bad, if you give it parameters to be bad. The problem is, people have the expectation that no matter how bad the base tune, you can simply turn it on and let it do the tuning for you.
The reality is far from that again.
Gargabe in, Garbage out. Yes the makers Holley have tried to make most parts as simplistic as possible, but it still doesnt mean a complete novice can install it, plug it in and it will simply work and run great without any input from someone competent at some point.
@Anchor, whilst support for it is only building in the US, and it is expensive, you could consider Syvecs.
It is a hugely capable ecu and what I'll be switching to next year
That said, given the level of superb ecu's designed and built in Australia, there isnt any lack of local choices.
@Pro, the Motec has excellent boost control setup, although it maybe isnt as easy as some to use. But I do agree, Motec stuff is way overpriced for the most part.
In many ways, lots of users in the US is years behind utilising modern standalone ecu's on many platforms. So I'm sure it will happen given time.
As for closed loop....it will only do harm or be bad, if you give it parameters to be bad. The problem is, people have the expectation that no matter how bad the base tune, you can simply turn it on and let it do the tuning for you.
The reality is far from that again.
Gargabe in, Garbage out. Yes the makers Holley have tried to make most parts as simplistic as possible, but it still doesnt mean a complete novice can install it, plug it in and it will simply work and run great without any input from someone competent at some point.
@Anchor, whilst support for it is only building in the US, and it is expensive, you could consider Syvecs.
It is a hugely capable ecu and what I'll be switching to next year
That said, given the level of superb ecu's designed and built in Australia, there isnt any lack of local choices.
@Pro, the Motec has excellent boost control setup, although it maybe isnt as easy as some to use. But I do agree, Motec stuff is way overpriced for the most part.
11-21-2013, 02:57 AM
#110
Sharing some signals back to stock computer I would put in the 'easy' category. It was 2003 I think when I did it to my car. Accel box and later with Bs3. Maybe a noise issue on the Holley?
http://mightym0use.wix.com/mm-solutions
http://mightym0use.wix.com/mm-solutions
11-21-2013, 03:03 AM
#111
9 Second Club
There shouldnt be any noise issues as the essential sensors are very basic, just seems some people are slow to grasp what's involved and maybe think piggyback means something different..so get scared off or think doing it is wrong.
11-21-2013, 05:28 AM
#112
That is so far from the truth.
In many ways, lots of users in the US is years behind utilising modern standalone ecu's on many platforms. So I'm sure it will happen given time.
As for closed loop....it will only do harm or be bad, if you give it parameters to be bad. The problem is, people have the expectation that no matter how bad the base tune, you can simply turn it on and let it do the tuning for you.
The reality is far from that again.
Gargabe in, Garbage out. Yes the makers Holley have tried to make most parts as simplistic as possible, but it still doesnt mean a complete novice can install it, plug it in and it will simply work and run great without any input from someone competent at some point.
@Anchor, whilst support for it is only building in the US, and it is expensive, you could consider Syvecs.
It is a hugely capable ecu and what I'll be switching to next year
That said, given the level of superb ecu's designed and built in Australia, there isnt any lack of local choices.
@Pro, the Motec has excellent boost control setup, although it maybe isnt as easy as some to use. But I do agree, Motec stuff is way overpriced for the most part.
In many ways, lots of users in the US is years behind utilising modern standalone ecu's on many platforms. So I'm sure it will happen given time.
As for closed loop....it will only do harm or be bad, if you give it parameters to be bad. The problem is, people have the expectation that no matter how bad the base tune, you can simply turn it on and let it do the tuning for you.
The reality is far from that again.
Gargabe in, Garbage out. Yes the makers Holley have tried to make most parts as simplistic as possible, but it still doesnt mean a complete novice can install it, plug it in and it will simply work and run great without any input from someone competent at some point.
@Anchor, whilst support for it is only building in the US, and it is expensive, you could consider Syvecs.
It is a hugely capable ecu and what I'll be switching to next year
That said, given the level of superb ecu's designed and built in Australia, there isnt any lack of local choices.
@Pro, the Motec has excellent boost control setup, although it maybe isnt as easy as some to use. But I do agree, Motec stuff is way overpriced for the most part.
11-21-2013, 06:26 AM
#113
Does anyone actually test there E85 before using it?
Have you guys tested the amount of timing change, or AFR change needed from say E50 to E90 (which ive seen at the pump) to keep your setup maximized?
The flex fuel sensor, is the data built in? or do you have to user define how much timing and commanded afr change there will be?
if so, are you going go through the task of checking, optimizing your tune, then saving that data to compile a chart? just curious, everyone is so hung up on these flex fuel sensor stuff, and im ignorant to the situation since i just test it and adjust how i see fit.
So do these setups actually have some kind of data in place for differing alcohol content?
Have you guys tested the amount of timing change, or AFR change needed from say E50 to E90 (which ive seen at the pump) to keep your setup maximized?
The flex fuel sensor, is the data built in? or do you have to user define how much timing and commanded afr change there will be?
if so, are you going go through the task of checking, optimizing your tune, then saving that data to compile a chart? just curious, everyone is so hung up on these flex fuel sensor stuff, and im ignorant to the situation since i just test it and adjust how i see fit.
So do these setups actually have some kind of data in place for differing alcohol content?
11-21-2013, 08:14 AM
#114
9 Second Club
Does anyone actually test there E85 before using it?
Have you guys tested the amount of timing change, or AFR change needed from say E50 to E90 (which ive seen at the pump) to keep your setup maximized?
The flex fuel sensor, is the data built in? or do you have to user define how much timing and commanded afr change there will be?
if so, are you going go through the task of checking, optimizing your tune, then saving that data to compile a chart? just curious, everyone is so hung up on these flex fuel sensor stuff, and im ignorant to the situation since i just test it and adjust how i see fit.
So do these setups actually have some kind of data in place for differing alcohol content?
Have you guys tested the amount of timing change, or AFR change needed from say E50 to E90 (which ive seen at the pump) to keep your setup maximized?
The flex fuel sensor, is the data built in? or do you have to user define how much timing and commanded afr change there will be?
if so, are you going go through the task of checking, optimizing your tune, then saving that data to compile a chart? just curious, everyone is so hung up on these flex fuel sensor stuff, and im ignorant to the situation since i just test it and adjust how i see fit.
So do these setups actually have some kind of data in place for differing alcohol content?
You are correct to say that you dont simply throw a flex fuel sensor in, and magic occurs and it does everything for you.
Obviously you can apply some degree of guesswork based on maths and experience, but of course it would need tuned on all fuel types you intend to use.
And as for Holley....unless the market was massive, maybe there is no push to make them offer it as plug n play. Often that sort of thing is left to tuners, but then as everyone will have different needs for their car...there isnt always a generic plug n play for everyone.
11-21-2013, 08:30 AM
#115
Not saying that other systems are not capable but that was the beauty of the ProEfi for me and others around me. Once tuned and the parameters were set by the tuner, the ProEfi pretty much did all of the auto correcting for us which is great for us with little to no knowledge of tuning. The Can Gauge and Display on the ProEfi can show you exactly what the ethanol content is and self adjust. Since I live up in the NE we had a few guys fill up recently and it was as low as E78 and during the summer we have witnessed up to E90. The Efi 128 has a display option in which you can watch the Ethanol Analyzer in real time. So you could fill up 93 octane, drive, then at any given point add some E85, and the analyzer would do all of the calculations and all of the adjustments for you regardless of the amount or % of Octane vs E85. Something rather convenient for us users who do not want to have a laptop in the car or multiple tunes for multiple ethanol content fuel. This is one reason why it was worth it to me on my 2JZ setup.
On a side note, I have heard that Syvec is an incredible piece of equipment including real time remote tuning capabilities but it is too new in the US and not enough tuner knowledge here for me to jump on the bandwagon.
On a side note, I have heard that Syvec is an incredible piece of equipment including real time remote tuning capabilities but it is too new in the US and not enough tuner knowledge here for me to jump on the bandwagon.
11-21-2013, 08:40 AM
#116
9 Second Club
Not saying that other systems are not capable but that was the beauty of the ProEfi for me and others around me. Once tuned and the parameters were set by the tuner, the ProEfi pretty much did all of the auto correcting for us which is great for us with little to no knowledge of tuning. The Can Gauge and Display on the ProEfi can show you exactly what the ethanol content is and self adjust. Since I live up in the NE we had a few guys fill up recently and it was as low as E78 and during the summer we have witnessed up to E90. The Efi 128 has a display option in which you can watch the Ethanol Analyzer in real time. So you could fill up 93 octane, drive, then at any given point add some E85, and the analyzer would do all of the calculations and all of the adjustments for you regardless of the amount or % of Octane vs E85. Something rather convenient for us users who do not want to have a laptop in the car or multiple tunes for multiple ethanol content fuel. This is one reason why it was worth it to me on my 2JZ setup.
On a side note, I have heard that Syvec is an incredible piece of equipment including real time remote tuning capabilities but it is too new in the US and not enough tuner knowledge here for me to jump on the bandwagon.
On a side note, I have heard that Syvec is an incredible piece of equipment including real time remote tuning capabilities but it is too new in the US and not enough tuner knowledge here for me to jump on the bandwagon.
As soundengineer points out....strictly speaking the ecu does not do this itself. Just the ecu allows the tuner to set up all those parameters and controls.
So as with any ecu package, the actual outcome is always dictated by the abilities of the tuner, and secondly the abilities of the ecu itself. Get either wrong, and it wont be a happy outcome.
11-21-2013, 09:10 AM
#117
Same with any ecu, the user/tuner will need to apply any tuning changes for any type of fuel change over base/initial tuning
You are correct to say that you dont simply throw a flex fuel sensor in, and magic occurs and it does everything for you.
Obviously you can apply some degree of guesswork based on maths and experience, but of course it would need tuned on all fuel types you intend to use.
And as for Holley....unless the market was massive, maybe there is no push to make them offer it as plug n play. Often that sort of thing is left to tuners, but then as everyone will have different needs for their car...there isnt always a generic plug n play for everyone.
You are correct to say that you dont simply throw a flex fuel sensor in, and magic occurs and it does everything for you.
Obviously you can apply some degree of guesswork based on maths and experience, but of course it would need tuned on all fuel types you intend to use.
And as for Holley....unless the market was massive, maybe there is no push to make them offer it as plug n play. Often that sort of thing is left to tuners, but then as everyone will have different needs for their car...there isnt always a generic plug n play for everyone.
Personally, i dont see the hype on it, lol. Thats just me though. To each there own. For what its worth... I looked into the ProEfi, admittedly, very little, before i bought my Holley.
As said over and over in here. Silverbullet or whatever his name his hit the nail on the head. What ever is going to fit you the best... Just be ready to start forking out cash in any direction.
11-25-2013, 05:15 PM
#120
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I have the Holley EFI and had a competent tuner do the intitial tune set up for me until I learned the Holley. I have been doing some small adjustments just to see how it works and affects a pass, etc...
I read all the pages and as far as E85 goes, there isn't a lot of difference in octane between E85 and E50. The E50 is going to make the engine run richer because of more gasoline in the mix. I tried to get my tune as good as possible while the mix was actually at it's highest point which was 90 percent here. So now when I run a mix that is only 50 percent ethanol won't it just run a little richer and when it gets back to E90 then it will be optimal? That was my plan so I don't have to change the tune all the time. You can also set it to correct up to 100 percent on the fuel tables. So if I have it set for say 11.5 AFR at a certain boost and run the learn function and then transfer the learn to the base table, at that point am I not safe again. It's pretty simple unless I am not understanding it correctly.
I read all the pages and as far as E85 goes, there isn't a lot of difference in octane between E85 and E50. The E50 is going to make the engine run richer because of more gasoline in the mix. I tried to get my tune as good as possible while the mix was actually at it's highest point which was 90 percent here. So now when I run a mix that is only 50 percent ethanol won't it just run a little richer and when it gets back to E90 then it will be optimal? That was my plan so I don't have to change the tune all the time. You can also set it to correct up to 100 percent on the fuel tables. So if I have it set for say 11.5 AFR at a certain boost and run the learn function and then transfer the learn to the base table, at that point am I not safe again. It's pretty simple unless I am not understanding it correctly.